"This Time It is Sane, I swear" - Nin1000

Atheon

Time's Conflux
yn
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Jun 14 2017 at 4:25am
sheet is here: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13WLobKHSDEg6pvciHV0M93krFWq9wsGHoGK9BXFLFLU/edit#gid=0

creator's note: is happy to up the playerbase if needed. all inputs welcomed.
 

Atheon

Time's Conflux
nin1000
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Jun 14 2017 at 6:02am
Feel free to comment on it
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Atheon

Time's Conflux
Kawl
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Jun 14 2017 at 9:39pm
Alright, seems to be pretty bare bones.

What is your vision with this game nin?

You want town to struggle with fighting off foes from both sides? Cultist can grow up to the size of 4. Can all cultist recruit or only the original member?

If all can recruit I find it hard to believe town can win in that case....
 

Atheon

Time's Conflux
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Jun 14 2017 at 10:38pm via mobile

Jun 14 2017 at 9:39pm Kawl said:
Alright, seems to be pretty bare bones.

What is your vision with this game nin?

You want town to struggle with fighting off foes from both sides? Cultist can grow up to the size of 4. Can all cultist recruit or only the original member?

If all can recruit I find it hard to believe town can win in that case....

Sorry for forgetting to point that out, but yeah. Only the cult leader can "recruit". Furthermore the cultists can only grow hot to a size if 4 including the dead. Sorian pointed out giving mafia a or in order to check for cultists.

Your thoughts on it ?
 

Atheon

Time's Conflux
yn
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tactical house-sized spider nuke


Jun 15 2017 at 1:43am
my comments to nin, from discord was that:
1. not a huge fan of the recruit/cult mechanism but has seen it worked (in Cthulhu, though Sorayan didn't stay very long) and has seen it backfired in Quarantine
2. the cultist is basically a POWER cop because he cant recruit mafia / townie PR
3. if the cultist is lynched D1, this drops into a very standard mafia game with 18 players

your 2 reviewers are: kawl (as he has made comments here) and el topo, ninchan
 

Atheon

Time's Conflux
ATHEON NOTE: AT THIS POINT, EL TOPO ARRIVED AND MADE SEVERAL DISPARAGING REMARKS ABOUT THE GAME WITH NO FEEDBACK. THESE HAVE NOT BEEN TRANSFERRED, BECAUSE THEY CONTAIN NO USEFUL CONTENT.

>END OF LINE<
 

Atheon

Time's Conflux
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Jun 15 2017 at 6:11am
General questions and comments:
1. What are the precise win cons here? I assume town wins when both cult and mafia are dead? Cult wins when no one else remains?
2. Do cult members know their leader or other members? If the cult leader is killed, do recruited members become Town again?
3. I like the dynamic between town/mafia/cult, but I think it's something we will have to look into closely.

Best case for Mafia:
Start of D1- 16/4
End of D1 - 15/4
Start of D2 - 13/4
End of D2 - 12/4
Start of D3 - 10/4
End of D3 - 9/4
Start of D4 - 7/4
End of D4 - 6/4
Start of D5 - 4/4

Worst case for Mafia:
Start of D1 - 16/4
End of D1 - 16/3
Start of D2 - 15/2
End of D2 - 15/1
Start of D3 - 14/0

Possible problems:
1. Non-mafia has essentially two cops. How is this going to play out, especially with an infinite-shot vigilante?
2. In case mafia is eliminated, how does the game proceed? How do things play out? You would basically have town with a severely neutered pseudo-mafia.
3. As pointed out by yn, if the cultist is eliminated on D1, this game becomes 18/4 or 17/4. Would that really be balanced?
 

Atheon

Time's Conflux
nin1000
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Jun 15 2017 at 10:26am via mobile
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Jun 15 2017 at 6:11am eltopodelgaf said:
General questions and comments:
1. What are the precise win cons here? I assume town wins when both cult and mafia are dead? Cult wins when no one else remains?
2. Do cult members know their leader or other members? If the cult leader is killed, do recruited members become Town again?
3. I like the dynamic between town/mafia/cult, but I think it's something we will have to look into closely.

Best case for Mafia:
Start of D1- 16/4
End of D1 - 15/4
Start of D2 - 13/4
End of D2 - 12/4
Start of D3 - 10/4
End of D3 - 9/4
Start of D4 - 7/4
End of D4 - 6/4
Start of D5 - 4/4

Worst case for Mafia:
Start of D1 - 16/4
End of D1 - 16/3
Start of D2 - 15/2
End of D2 - 15/1
Start of D3 - 14/0

Possible problems:
1. Non-mafia has essentially two cops. How is this going to play out, especially with an infinite-shot vigilante?
2. In case mafia is eliminated, how does the game proceed? How do things play out? You would basically have town with a severely neutered pseudo-mafia.
3. As pointed out by yn, if the cultist is eliminated on D1, this game becomes 18/4 or 17/4. Would that really be balanced?

1.yes and yes.

Town wins when all threads are gone.

Cultists Win condition:' You win when a majority of the living players are cultists, or when nothing can prevent this from happening

Stalemate 1v1v1 will cause cultists to win.

2. They do know who their leader is and will receive a private chat.

I still am unsure how to handle the cultists. On the one hand I would only make the leader be able to convert other vanilla town players. On the other hand it would be pretty sad if the leader gets killed d1 or n1. Therefore I am still unsure if I will give the other cultists the ability to convert, since they only can reach a maximum of 4.

The vigilante was mean to be infinite but I will probably tone him down to be 3-4 shot at maximum since he can also shoot at daylight. Therefore the possibility of him getting night killed could rise.

About the problem that there are essentially 2 cops.

Cultists will lose the ability to check as soon as they reach 4 players.
I know it's a small thing but yeah will have to take a look at it.

If mafia dies, game continues until all threads to town are gone.

As if town was still dealing with mafia

Regarding the cultist leader getting killed on the first day and therefore the gaming turning 17/4.

Make him immortal on night 1 or rather up the goon players ?

Would love to hear your thoughts in it.
 

Atheon

Time's Conflux
nin1000
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The Chilean madman who may or may not currently be in Germany

Jun 15 2017 at 10:30am via mobile
I know it's trash. That's why I want to make it happen.


Favour was console wars
Xbox (town) Vs Sony (mafia) wifh Nintendo (cultists)

What are your thoughts on telling town that there are cultists ?

Yay or nay ?
 

Atheon

Time's Conflux
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Jun 15 2017 at 11:02am via mobile

All set in an island ofc.
 

Atheon

Time's Conflux
eltopodelgaf
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Jun 17 2017 at 3:28am
1. You could make the recruit ability similar to the kill ability of mafia, i.e. a faction-wide once-per-night ability or that whoever is the oldest cultist has the recruit ability.

2. Limiting the shots of the vigilante seems fine.

3. I think it could be problematic if mafia is taken out quickly somehow. Unlikely, I admit, but then you would have a "mafia" without ability.

4. Cult leader could still be lynched on D1. Not saying it's bad, just pointing it out.
 

Atheon

Time's Conflux
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Aug 31 2017 at 11:37am via mobile

Jun 17 2017 at 3:28am eltopodelgaf said:
1. You could make the recruit ability similar to the kill ability of mafia, i.e. a faction-wide once-per-night ability or that whoever is the oldest cultist has the recruit ability.
Seems reasonable.


Jun 17 2017 at 3:28am eltopodelgaf said:
2. Limiting the shots of the vigilante seems fine.

Thanks

Jun 17 2017 at 3:28am eltopodelgaf said:
3. I think it could be problematic if mafia is taken out quickly somehow. Unlikely, I admit, but then you would have a "mafia" without ability.

That is true. Any suggestions? Since it would also mean that there would be no night kills.

Jun 17 2017 at 3:28am eltopodelgaf said:
4. Cult leader could still be lynched on D1. Not saying it's bad, just pointing it out.
If this happens I am going to cry
 

Atheon

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Aug 31 2017 at 11:50am
1. Update the sheet.

2. I think the cult should be protected in some manner on D1. Maybe give the cultist the chance to convert someone upon death if he is the only one or something like that, just to ensure that the worst case is avoided.

3. I think there are all sorts of ways this game could go wrong, but it also holds tremendous potential.
 

Atheon

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Sep 3 2017 at 6:31am
Updated the sheet.
Still unsure how many shots i should give the vigilante.
Suggestions please ?
 

Atheon

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Sep 3 2017 at 2:06pm
Looks good, but I've asked for a second opinion among the mods. Not sure if my proposals (e.g. that the recruiting does not die with the leader) were reasonable.
 

Atheon

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Kawl
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Sep 12 2017 at 10:02pm
I'd go with 3 shot vig instead of 4 personally. If he has the option of both day and night vig, I would kind of like to see some type of handicap if it is used during the day vs in the night. Mayhaps if he uses a shot during the day and hits town, suicides/death by angry town? makes deciding to use it during the day more risky so doesnt allow a psuedo clear. unless you think town needs the psuedo clear to win.

I like allowing other cultist to recruit if the lead dies and agree with allowing a recruitment to go off night 1 even if they are lynched/killed. Needs to be explicit in the role pm though so if they are lynched day 1 town knows that cult is still active.

I would say that you inform the town with some bolded text during either day 1 or day 2 intro, but I would not tell them the maximum cult size, I think the air of mystery will be more conducive to a paranoid town.

Overall, I like it.

Sorry for getting to this a day late!
 

Atheon

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Sep 13 2017 at 4:50am via mobile
Sep 12 2017 at 10:02pm Kawl said:
I'd go with 3 shot vig instead of 4 personally. If he has the option of both day and night vig, I would kind of like to see some type of handicap if it is used during the day vs in the night. Mayhaps if he uses a shot during the day and hits town, suicides/death by angry town? makes deciding to use it during the day more risky so doesnt allow a psuedo clear. unless you think town needs the psuedo clear to win.

I like allowing other cultist to recruit if the lead dies and agree with allowing a recruitment to go off night 1 even if they are lynched/killed. Needs to be explicit in the role pm though so if they are lynched day 1 town knows that cult is still active.

I would say that you inform the town with some bolded text during either day 1 or day 2 intro, but I would not tell them the maximum cult size, I think the air of mystery will be more conducive to a paranoid town.

Overall, I like it.

Sorry for getting to this a day late!

Thanks, what about this idea of having 2 night shots and 2 day shots. The day shots have a handicap though. It will either hit the target or another random person. Including himself. 50/50.
Thoughts on that ?
 

Atheon

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Sep 13 2017 at 9:47am
Alright, looked at it, some remarks:

-I would make it so that the vig can't use his day shot on day 1. The last thing you want to happen is the cult leader dying on day 1, either by lynch or day shot, so probably smart to remove half of those options upfront.

- One issue with the win conditions: if there are 4 plays left, 2 cultist and 2 town players, and the town players know pretty certain of each other that they are town and the cultist can no longer recruit, nobody will get lynched during the day, nobody will die during the night and you are stuck in a neverending stalemate.

Overall this game is basically the bloodborne game with less power roles, and it worked quite well there (aka, i won
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, so I think it could work well here too.
 

Atheon

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Sep 13 2017 at 9:48am
Sep 13 2017 at 4:50am nin1000 said:

Thanks, what about this idea of having 2 night shots and 2 day shots. The day shots have a handicap though. It will either hit the target or another random person. Including himself. 50/50.
Thoughts on that ?

Personally, I HATE roles that are too much rng. They are simply not fun. They are not fun to use (oh hey, rng made me hit scum jay?) and certainly not fun to die too (oh, I died by purely bad luck, jay?). I would try to limit the influence of rng as much as possible.
 

Atheon

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Sep 13 2017 at 1:27pm via mobile
Sep 13 2017 at 9:47am Roytheone said:
Alright, looked at it, some remarks:

-I would make it so that the vig can't use his day shot on day 1. The last thing you want to happen is the cult leader dying on day 1, either by lynch or day shot, so probably smart to remove half of those options upfront.

- One issue with the win conditions: if there are 4 plays left, 2 cultist and 2 town players, and the town players know pretty certain of each other that they are town and the cultist can no longer recruit, nobody will get lynched during the day, nobody will die during the night and you are stuck in a neverending stalemate.

Overall this game is basically the bloodborne game with less power roles, and it worked quite well there (aka, i won
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, so I think it could work well here too.



Good point on the win con, I think if all mafia are eliminated and # of cult = # of town, that should be a cult win.
 

Atheon

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Sep 13 2017 at 1:28pm via mobile
Sep 13 2017 at 9:48am Roytheone said:
Sep 13 2017 at 4:50am nin1000 said:
Thanks, what about this idea of having 2 night shots and 2 day shots. The day shots have a handicap though. It will either hit the target or another random person. Including himself. 50/50.
Thoughts on that ?

Personally, I HATE roles that are too much rng. They are simply not fun. They are not fun to use (oh hey, rng made me hit scum jay?) and certainly not fun to die too (oh, I died by purely bad luck, jay?). I would try to limit the influence of rng as much as possible.



And definitely agree on that. I'd rather the person have full control of the outcome, no coin flip involved.
 

Atheon

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Oct 2 2017 at 3:06am
Ok. Made the changes.
Any other thoughts ?
 
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