Spectator Thread Buffy and CW Spectator Thread
- Thread starter RetroMG
- Start date
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Nicole wasn't 100% confirmed.
And she is a liar.
4/2 MYLO unless GoG hits with a miracle read and block.
Scum has been under slight pressure the entire game, most of the team being scum or null read all the time, but town seems afraid to pursue these suspicions, rolling back and looking for convoluted targets instead.
I think Nicole pushed herself into a corner this day phase, but it didn’t have to end like this. It didn’t have to be just another thunderdome, with so many other suspects.
I think Nicole pushed herself into a corner this day phase, but it didn’t have to end like this. It didn’t have to be just another thunderdome, with so many other suspects.
My game had 2. I’m really getting used to it.
cabot
Why.
nah fran, the case wasn't as clear cut.
I've seen plenty of neutrals lie just cause, despite no advantage to them. Nicoles claim being a big dumb lie just made Brazil look slightly better, and her own scumhunting wasn't particularly good, though to be fair thats universal across the remaining group.
I've seen plenty of neutrals lie just cause, despite no advantage to them. Nicoles claim being a big dumb lie just made Brazil look slightly better, and her own scumhunting wasn't particularly good, though to be fair thats universal across the remaining group.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Thinking too much is why you died Fran...
Then again you lynched Kyan despite no one counter-claiming or refuting his role.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Finally caught up. Wow, that sure was something.
1. I can see how using private information that is outside of the game is a grey area. I think I would’ve been fine with whatever way the modkills did (or didn’t) go.
2. Props to Monkey and Cabot for handling a shitty situation well. You did the best you could given everything.
3. Whining about mentions of GAF was one of the lower moments I’ve seen in our games (which is saying something since I’ve made multiple people so mad they considered quitting playing). That it came from an admin is even worse. Trying to classify that as being an “internet detective” was a huge reach and far bigger of a derail than anything else in that whole exchange. Pinging another person to come in and reinforce her will as well, yikes.
4. On the topic of play, Nicole shouldn’t have backed down from the claim. Especially given there’s only so many players she could have thought were scum at that point with Brazil being a clear suspect. RIP Town, at least I got what I wanted lol
1. I can see how using private information that is outside of the game is a grey area. I think I would’ve been fine with whatever way the modkills did (or didn’t) go.
2. Props to Monkey and Cabot for handling a shitty situation well. You did the best you could given everything.
3. Whining about mentions of GAF was one of the lower moments I’ve seen in our games (which is saying something since I’ve made multiple people so mad they considered quitting playing). That it came from an admin is even worse. Trying to classify that as being an “internet detective” was a huge reach and far bigger of a derail than anything else in that whole exchange. Pinging another person to come in and reinforce her will as well, yikes.
4. On the topic of play, Nicole shouldn’t have backed down from the claim. Especially given there’s only so many players she could have thought were scum at that point with Brazil being a clear suspect. RIP Town, at least I got what I wanted lol
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
I'm repeating myself, but it also looks pretty bad if she took down a townie who happened to have her name with her.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
DCPat's role was passive and as much chance of outing a PR than scum.
GoG's block is an extremely weak cop check in that she needs to hit the exact scum that shoots or it does nothing.
Kyan's claim was solid and at that point he really was as much a verified Town as Nicole.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Sure, but to go with that she has to believe Brazil is town and if she does then who is scum?
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
This is a very common pattern. Focus on the most visible players. It's not on purpose of course, but it happens a lot if you're not careful. That's partly why I played so passively trying to counter the meta and never really mentioning my scum mates to keep the attention on townies.
Simple things like just looking at the player list helps a lot. That forces you to look at the game more holistically and look critically at your reads.
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
Gotham and Stan according to her I think.
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
Block is quite powerful with few scum remaining and decent reads. That's why town with jailor is usually countered with scum strongman because it can be so powerful late game. Mafiascum has a section about avoiding tracker+jailor because it's really powerful with only one scum alive.
It's not quite cop check, but stopping the NK and confirming a scum in the same move, when successful, is a decent power.
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
I'm not saying this game had that as both are limited shot and unlikely to be in play in late game.
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
I'm being especially cryptic, but when everybody is suspicious and you're not cooperating with anyone the waters are much muddier and scum has much more leverage to steer the lynch.
Also town reads are imo way more accurate than scum reads. Town is town, scum is generally not town and proving a negative is much harder.
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
I think Brazil needs a bit of praise. That was a pretty good move and with Nicole not really suspecting him he is probably not going to be a prime suspect tomorrow.
It wasn't mentions of GAF. And to be clear, there were conversations with other admins and moderators prior to taking action. We have clear rules. You can't start trying to dig up where someone was or wasn't banned on another site, etc. Saying, "hey I played that game on GAF" is fine, etc. it's the ban discussion that started crossing the line.
The remaining town is acting stupid, and I really have no hope of them getting it right unless it is GoG. Maybe they'll be smart enough to target Brazil, but I doubt it. They should have used the day to try and get more information and go scum hunting on everyone like I was doing. Instead, no one wanted to contribute, tunneled on me, and wouldn't engage in any dialogue so there really wasn't any point in dragging things out.
I also didn't really believe the Kyan claim, but I wasn't going to lynch him over it. I thought Stanley, Brazil or GoG was much more likely to be scum than Kyan.
I was going to do a read on her but after reading her posts, but after melonrabbit was like "hey they might be scum" and then refused to do any scum hunting on them, I didn't see the point.
It's the Geno way.
ding ding ding
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
Mason bae <3
But lying is fun. Honestly, I'd do the lie again. It made that game way more enjoyable to me.
cabot
Why.
I feel like melon was less and less proactive the more town confirmed she was.
I still think the best play for confirmed players is to take the lead and drive discussion with all players, because everyone has to trust you (if town).
She did the opposite of what I would've hoped for.
I still think the best play for confirmed players is to take the lead and drive discussion with all players, because everyone has to trust you (if town).
She did the opposite of what I would've hoped for.
When it comes to moderation decisions on ResetEra, no one acts as one. No moderation decision, from a warning to a ban, is made in isolation. There were multiple people consulted on the possible encroachment, including Grizzly and Hecht. Brazil and myself both agreed that things had gone a step too far, and there was a course correction needed. We unanimously agreed that a modpost was in the best interests of the thread. I should have informed the game runners about the decision prior. I have apologized to Monkey and Cabot already, and ResetEra staff will ensure that game runners are informed before action is taken in the future. The discussion of the modpost in the game thread was intended to hopefully nip the conversation in the butt in a fast moving game while site staff had a chance to discuss. In hindsight, game runners should have been consulted to pause the game first. To emphasize, talking about things such as the old mafia games and that they were on GAF is fine on ResetEra. Talking about old bans and other such things are not. If you have questions, feel free to ask. Grizzly, Hecht, and myself are happy to answer them. I'd include Brazil too, but I think he still has some town to kill. Thanks.
Hecht
Like dubstep for my bootyhole
twitch
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
The mod post for a rules reminder isn't the issue.
Posting in the game thread and trying to assert your mod powers to have a player killed, who you were heavily scum reading btw, was not a good look.
Hecht
Like dubstep for my bootyhole
Obviously we can't go back in time and fix that, but we've discussed how to go about this in the future (PMing the gamerunners rather than posting in the thread)
There was no push from mod powers to have the player killed. I am and always will be an admin first and a player second. Obviously, there was a conflict of interest. That is why beyond determining that there was mod post needed, I nor Brazil was involved in the conversation on how to correct the game. I can assure you there was no behind the scenes conversations between myself and anyone else regarding who should or shouldn't be mod killed. I specifically bowed out of any such conversation, and any necessary input from ResetEra staff needed from the game runners came from Hecht and Grizzly.
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
so when Sorian doesn't lie... :thinking:
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
You brought it up in the thread though when it clearly had no place in the game.
I'm curious what rule(s) was/were being broken. The FAQ didn't seem to cover it and it looks like it didn't have much to do with GAF in specific.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
For clarification purposes then - if I was talking to someone in the general Mafia thread about a game we were planning last year, to which they asked “hey do you remember what theme ideas we were discussing originally? I went to check and noticed we were both banned” you all would’ve swooped in just as quickly? Because the conversation was never explicitly about GAF nor was it about the reasons, events, etc. behind a ban. It was simply “he cannot check PMs due to being banned”.
Either way, the way it unfolded didn’t have the best optics. I’m glad steps are being taken to avoid it in the future. It’s entirely possible no harm was meant at any point in the process, but without knowing intent it was a bad exchange to witness.
"'Internet detective' work" is what we refer to it as. We have warned and banned users for it, and it is one of the rules that we enforce. It typically carries an instant long, ban associated with it. However, it looks like it was left off of the public FAQ during recent revisions. We will be adding to the FAQ in the near future. That's definitely an oversight on our part. Sorry.
As I understand it, it was using info about Blarg from another place - his ban on GAF - that was the issue. So even if it wasn't GAF but was, say, "oh, you must be lying, you said X on your blog that I found" would be out of bounds for similar reasons, because it veers toward internet detective work. Please correct if wrong, however.
eta: though I will say it feels very weird when that outside side being used is GAF when many members of Era do have a shared history there, but that's perhaps another conversation.
eta: though I will say it feels very weird when that outside side being used is GAF when many members of Era do have a shared history there, but that's perhaps another conversation.
I believe you have a correct understanding of the problem.
I don't understand why melon was so passive, and it made me really sad. As a confirmed town, your job is basically to lead the conversation, steer everyone towards scum hunting, etc. People weren't listening to me for whatever reason, and if she had stepped up the plate and directed towards some other scum hunting, at least town would be in a better position come tomorrow.
Also, I fully expect Brazil to win this game.
hence the cascade of modkills.
i'm the real enemy in buffy. the killer of all.
eta: yeah, scum almost certainly has this.
cabot
Why.
Scum would only lose if they decide to kill GoG, which would be silly.
hom3land is so tunneled it hurts.
With regards to what happened with Nicole/RE staff, I’ll say my peace in the main thread when the game is over, I only had a problem with demanding a modkill in game, though i didn’t feel it was enough to modkill, despite how tempted I was.
Don’t tempt a Glaswegian.
hom3land is so tunneled it hurts.
With regards to what happened with Nicole/RE staff, I’ll say my peace in the main thread when the game is over, I only had a problem with demanding a modkill in game, though i didn’t feel it was enough to modkill, despite how tempted I was.
Don’t tempt a Glaswegian.
Franconp
Frank
Didn't GoG had an aligment check that she used on DCPat D1?
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
And you didn't know that when you killed Kyan so don't try and retroactively justify your bad read.
The Bear
Obligatory Gay Bear of the Society
Discussing the moderation of ResetEra on ResetEra derails threads and is against the FAQ. Please PM a moderator or an admin on ResetEra if you have any issues with ResetEra moderation, as public discussions will derail a thread and we will end up locking it. Discussion that takes place with regards to moderation on ResetEra is fine in Outer Mafia and Discord Server as they aren't part of ResetEra, and thus the site rules are not applicable.
Is there two scum left or one scum?
:P to be fair I was scum and only did it so I could frame turmoil. Also thanks for clarifying the whole Gaf thing.
Two scum left.
On another completely different note:
@SweetNicole
That (likely) typo Gorlka made me laugh, I like it ;)
On another completely different note:
@SweetNicole
That (likely) typo Gorlka made me laugh, I like it ;)
Franconp
Frank
I'm not justifiying nothing but that proves that he uncontested claim mean nothing. Town already had an investigative role and could have another one (and it did) that decided to not claim at the time so they don't risk themselves. That just proved that town didn't had another tracker.
If you reread you will see that the first thing that I said after Kyan roleclaimed was the he could be town if noone counterclaimed but if I ask a couple of questions and Kyan only provides info that everyone knew already (Gorlak and I) and make no sense with the rest of course it will raise a lot of red flags to me. If you add that he voted for Flush when Sorian was getting some votes it raises a lot more doubts.
I didn't realize it until last night when I was making that meme that I had been spelling it wrong lol
I went to tag him and it didn't work in preview, so I was like...oh I've been spelling it wrong :(
Also, my worst case two scum was right, ouch. Brazil and who? Stanley? Swamped?
No worries.
And that pic was gold. But I would've mainly contributed to mislynches (Kyan, turmoil) Being on a high horse in the spec thread is easy. But I feel Fran... and I know the paranoid, stubborn me good enough. So if I'm honest, I would've probably lynched Kyan too. In the heat of the fight it's hard to take a step back.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
But the topic Cabot is referring to is an admin’s actions in the game (i.e. seeking a modkill of a fellow player) not an actual ResetERA moderation action (such as a warning or ban). I see no reason we shouldn’t be able to discuss what occurred outside of the “internet detective” bit and the follow-up warning.
Hecht
Like dubstep for my bootyhole
We'll have a review thread and we'll get down to it. Her actions were not intentional, and I'm aware that the perception isn't great. I think we've got a good understanding of how to address it in the future.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
I do agree what was discussed in here already will be a better approach. Just trying to clarify what is and isn’t fair game to discuss in the review thread without getting banned lol
Yeah. I probably would have voted for him if I didn't think Stanley was acting strange.
I honestly wonder if I should have just stuck with my claim through and through and gotten Brazil lynched.
I really did think about it, but on the off chance he was town, it would have certainly destroyed town chances of winning. Knowing he was scum though, if I had a stronger read on his scumness, I would have pushed back harder.
Given that I had LP confirm town, I feel like I could have maybe won a vote off between Brazil and I. IDK
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Yeah, sticking to the claim would have been the better play. Even if you leaned town on Brazil you had no alignment confirmation, meanwhile you did know your alignment. Ultimately town will always be eager to lynch a liar because it’s the easiest case to make outside of an actual red check or seeing seeing someone visit the NK target. Your heart was in the right place but you underestimated town’s laziness lol
Hecht
Like dubstep for my bootyhole
Right now we're considering having the review thread here so that we can discuss the matter freely.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Got it, makes sense. Thanks for all the responses. I’ll leave it alone until review time.
I was going to wait to post this until the review thread, but I will go ahead and post it here now, and then again in the review thread.
_______
I want to apologize for the incident I caused in the Buffy mafia game. It is not acceptable to advocate for the mod kill of another player in a game thread like that, and I should have been mod killed for doing so. Although I have played games like Town of Salem before, I am still new to play by post mafia games and to what is permissible in a game thread. It is clear that my arguing for a mod kill was unacceptable.
I am sorry for any enjoyment my actions removed the game for both the other players, game runners, and spectators. Mafia is at the end of the day game played for fun, and my actions have certainly removed some of the fun out of what otherwise would have been pretty fun, crazy game. As there is no way I can apologize personally to each and every one of you, I hope this apology will suffice.
Furthermore, there was no ill intent on my part. I did not intend nor try to use my position as an administrator to influence the outcome or change the state of, the game. Looking back, I can see the perception that my actions give off, and if I were in your shoes, I probably would be concerned about the same thing too. I am sorry for any negative perceptions my unacceptable actions gave off.
I hope you can understand that even though ResetEra staff strives to be better, I am still human, and like any human, I make mistakes. I will be working with Hecht, Grizzly, and Brazil to help ensure we can avoid any appearance of a conflict of interest when ResetEra staff is involved in a mafia game to ensure that anything like this does not happen in the future.
Apologies,
SweetNicole
_______
I want to apologize for the incident I caused in the Buffy mafia game. It is not acceptable to advocate for the mod kill of another player in a game thread like that, and I should have been mod killed for doing so. Although I have played games like Town of Salem before, I am still new to play by post mafia games and to what is permissible in a game thread. It is clear that my arguing for a mod kill was unacceptable.
I am sorry for any enjoyment my actions removed the game for both the other players, game runners, and spectators. Mafia is at the end of the day game played for fun, and my actions have certainly removed some of the fun out of what otherwise would have been pretty fun, crazy game. As there is no way I can apologize personally to each and every one of you, I hope this apology will suffice.
Furthermore, there was no ill intent on my part. I did not intend nor try to use my position as an administrator to influence the outcome or change the state of, the game. Looking back, I can see the perception that my actions give off, and if I were in your shoes, I probably would be concerned about the same thing too. I am sorry for any negative perceptions my unacceptable actions gave off.
I hope you can understand that even though ResetEra staff strives to be better, I am still human, and like any human, I make mistakes. I will be working with Hecht, Grizzly, and Brazil to help ensure we can avoid any appearance of a conflict of interest when ResetEra staff is involved in a mafia game to ensure that anything like this does not happen in the future.
Apologies,
SweetNicole
People fuck up. It happens. A lot went into working through the gray areas around the various (!) modkills and the nonkills. It was a complicated, all-hands-on-deck matter I hope I never have to go through again. But I stand by the decisions we made and the decisions and statements that have been made sense - I have a lot of faith in this community and I think we do as well as we can with a sprawling, diverse, global playerbase. Getting to mod has shown me things I didn't know, too, and I'm grateful for that experience.
I'm looking forward to the review thread so we can hammer out some new limits and boundaries. Our rules should be living guidelines and shift as we shift, through location, expectation, and more.
I'm looking forward to the review thread so we can hammer out some new limits and boundaries. Our rules should be living guidelines and shift as we shift, through location, expectation, and more.
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
Lots of things suddenly sent wrong, one of them by themselves wouldn't have been a huge deal.
It's healthy to test boundaries every now and then though.
It's healthy to test boundaries every now and then though.
No. Mafia constitution :D
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
Went wrong obviously.
This community has changed SO much in the last three years, and it will certainly continue to change. Every season brings new challenges and new opportunities. This season's been wildly different for a lot of reasons - ResetEra, the RE mods playing with us, the new leadership teams, and even more goings on that most people aren't aware of yet. We have a LOT to talk about when the review thread goes up, and there will likely also be a Town Hall to discuss things in the next week or so.
In the meantime, I really do want to stress that we appreciate your patience. It's been a wild couple of days, (weeks) but we appreciate you guys hanging in there and being so understanding.
This silly girl says hi! You guys... I was so embarrassed for posting my role PM, I was blushing for hours and I am not the blushing kind. I didn't understand the rule 3 as it was, I thought my own role didn't apply to it as it was part of the game and didn't involve outside infos (honestly for silly people like me it would be nice to add it and avoid future issues).
I am looking forward to read your advice and suggestions, I would love to know what I did wrong during this game and how to improve.
Meanwhile, I am still tunneling into brazil as a scum, not sure about the last one since GOG claim.
I am looking forward to read your advice and suggestions, I would love to know what I did wrong during this game and how to improve.
Meanwhile, I am still tunneling into brazil as a scum, not sure about the last one since GOG claim.
Splinter
Lord of Volcano Island
This is a fair point. It's not the first time we've had people post their role pm without realising it's wrong.
As for advice, I'd really recommend taking a side at day end if your preferred candidate isn't a realistic lynch option. It's fine to make it clear who you really want lynched, but that shouldn't prevent you from having a say in who is actually lynched.
And besides, the more townies voting, the harder it is for scum to control the vote!
cabot
Why.
Write less novels.
If you've got a super long post brewing, break it up into smaller chunks and hammer the points you're making.Try to get your points across in a flowing exchange than putting all your thoughts in a massive post. You will get better interaction from other players and this usually helps to reform opinions in your own head as well.
The painful truth is that most people don't really read megaposts.
If you've got a super long post brewing, break it up into smaller chunks and hammer the points you're making.Try to get your points across in a flowing exchange than putting all your thoughts in a massive post. You will get better interaction from other players and this usually helps to reform opinions in your own head as well.
The painful truth is that most people don't really read megaposts.
What do you do when you have no read of the persons nominated? Like if they are null to you? I was scared to stray away from my reads and mislynch people without any reason for it and get called out afterwards and mislynched because of it.
Do the last minutes trains always happen in this game? Or usually people already have their candidates without changes?
Yes, you are right and add to it that is super exhausting to do as well! "tl;dr" was created for a reason and I should have known better.
Thank you both for the tips!! I appreciate them :)
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Awe how cute, she thinks it’s just Cabot.
cabot
Why.
Ignoring you is one of my most treasured pleasures.
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
One thing is to follow where the game seems to be going and look up people that are being discussed a lot. I've burned myself here in the past by not following the discussion and being totally blind at the day end.
If there are two people you have no opinion of at lynch best bet is to read those over really quickly and go for the one you prefer, however slightly. If you find both very town or whatever this could be the time to push other lynches you're more interested in.
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
Adding to this you can still make mega posts, but it really helps to have a tldr or otherwise structure so it can easily be skimmed (people often skim to catch up) and in other posts start hammering your main arguments either in direct replies or because people aren't listening.
Maybe not quite a mega post, but Kawl's summary of Hyperactive in Mini Mafia was the start of that scum lynch.
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/mini-mafia-i-ot-why-is-it-so-small.1251705/page-6#post-211439370
It was a long discussion that followed though which got most players involved and eventually voting for hyper. I didn't read it at first because ain't got time, but its importance meant I eventually read it.
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
You're not the first. There was one high profile scum modkill and I think I've seen that rule in big read text some places lol
Splinter
Lord of Volcano Island
Like Ty said, ideally you would look at who is likely to be a candidate at day end and try to form an opinion about them in advance. Sometimes you will townread both and that just kinda sucks, but it's still best to vote for whichever you think you are more likely to be wrong about.
And if you can't decide between the candidates, you could also look at who is pushing for them to be lynched. Maybe the people you trust/suspect all prefer one option etc. Maybe one option was discussed a lot more than the other, making their flip (even if town) more useful than the other.
Even with all that it's possible there will be nothing seperating the two candidates for you, in which case you could just say that (and/or flip a coin - but don't say that, it looks like a scummy excuse for a vote).
Megaposts are fine tbh. If you find it helpful to write them then don't feel pressured to stop. Just bare in mind that some people won't read/be convinced by them so you need to make the short posts too.
The real problem is the people not reading them, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
(I don't always read megaposts, and since they're a pain in the ass to quote on mobile I almost never interact with them.)
Seems reasonable enough. So basically what I have to do is try to push for my scum read and if it doesn't work than at least try and entertain the idea of the current lynch line-up as an alternative vote.
I see, the way to go is basically present the arguments in small amounts to hammer my point and perhaps at as a final stance and if I feel like it I can make a mega recap post. Yep, this definitely sounds better than what I did for sure.
I never thought of it! Why didn't I think of it?!!! Basically go against my scums' read votes. Yep, this is definitely reasonable and easily applicable if I am at my wits ends.
Why not?
Splinter
Lord of Volcano Island
You're voting for probably the only person you know for a fact is town. I've seen people do it to convince people of their innocence (never works) or out of frustration (understandable sometimes but you have to remember it's a team game), I've never seen it used for a good reason and have the desired outcome.
I think in this game you said it was because you felt like a liability? Not true, town is always blind so mislynches happen. If you really feel your reads are off its better to throw them away and take a fresh look at the thread than to self vote.