Conspiracy design & discussion

[Pedro]

franconp

Sep 4 2017 at 3:26am

Hi people who are going to help!! Thanks for reviewing this.

Here is a link with the spreadsheet with the setup: SETUP

Basic Flavour: A bunch of conspiracy nuts wake up locked in a bunker. Scum are goverment agents who are there to kill them.

And some basic info:

- I don't know if Yn already told you but this game is a bastard game. The setup is pretty vanilla actually but the roles are pretty bastard and they will have a lot of useless info.

- The game will be announced as a role madness bastard game. As you can see in the spreadsheet there are several roles called "useless role" and that's true. That roles have no real meaning in the game and they are just Ordinary (for example the poison doctor: There is no one who can poison so he has no use to his role). Also the idea is that one of them flips they will freak out thinking they lost a role that could protect them against a really non existant threat.

- The game will feature a map of the bunker. The map is really pretty useless but they will not know it. There is no mechanic related to the map and is just there for them to make theories of how it would work. There are some roles related to the map but they are useless roles to. I'm thinking about making them send me a PM or post in the thread commands to move from a place to another in the map to make it more legit.

- I'm also thinking about adding a counter at the start of the game. This counter will be absolutly useless and will just move as I see fit. It's just there for them to talk about it.

 

[Pedro]

The assigned reviewers for this game have changed, so a new thread was created.

Designer: @Franconp
Reviewers: @Pedro , @Swamped

 

[Swamped]

Omg, I never knew it until now, but I've always wanted to review a bastard game. I don't think we've ever had a fully bastard game before? I'm excited!!

Also, I thought this was going to be modeled on the video game lol XD

 

[Pedro]

Okay, I rested for a while and now can look at this. I reaaaaaally like this theme, and you should totally make the map a legit thing :D
Maybe even make a counter actually change the game once it hits zero, and then put a second counter that does nothing. That way players will be expecting the same thing to happen twice.

I have some things to say about the roles \o/

• The Vote Modifier and the Drug Giver: when they select 2 players during the Night, do they select which player will do what, or do they just say COMMAND: Player 1, Player 2, and you decide what to do?
• I like the Cannonneer role, but I don't see a good reason to use its power in this design except to throw people off. And once the Jailkeeper is dead, there's zero chance of a NK being stopped, so it becomes more or less a normal goon.
• Though the Paranoid Gossip can only kill a player once, can it invite other players to a secret chat, before or after the kill? Or is it one player, one chat, one kill during the entire game?
• If the Time Protector targets a player that is about to be NK'd during, for example, Night 1, will the player die on Day 2, or Night 2?
• Building upon the last question: If the Time Protector and the Jailkeeper target a player about to die on Night 1, who gets priority? If it's the Time Protector, the player will still die on Night 2. If it's the Jailkeeper, the player will not die at all.
• After the Death Pill uses its power, it will spend one Night + one Day + one Night (not counting the Investigate command here because that's just sending a message to you) without playing until it reappears in the following Day. That could potentially be an entire week depending on the duration of your phases, and could kill the momentum and the enjoyment of the player. I'd change it to make it use the power during a Day, so it only spends one Night away from the game and then it comes back during the next Day.
• The Secret Vote is the most OP role during endgame. I'd put some limits on it so they can only hide the votes up until a certain Day.

Finally, I think Mafia should get an useless role too. It's not as bastard for their team with the current design.

 

[Franconp]

Okay, I rested for a while and now can look at this. I reaaaaaally like this theme, and you should totally make the map a legit thing :D

The map will be there. It will have 4 places: rooms, dinner, rec room and library. I'm going to make them post a move command in the thread where they will spend the night. But it doesn't really matter as it's useless.

Maybe even make a counter actually change the game once it hits zero, and then put a second counter that does nothing. That way players will be expecting the same thing to happen twice.

And I love this idea. I need to think about how to use this but this will definitely happen.

I have some things to say about the roles \o/

• The Vote Modifier and the Drug Giver: when they select 2 players during the Night, do they select which player will do what, or do they just say COMMAND: Player 1, Player 2, and you decide what to do?

They will select what the players do. I'm against RNG in a game so I try to not use it.

• I like the Cannonneer role, but I don't see a good reason to use its power in this design except to throw people off. And once the Jailkeeper is dead, there's zero chance of a NK being stopped, so it becomes more or less a normal goon.

He is there to throw people off. But I can change it if scum is underpowered.

• Though the Paranoid Gossip can only kill a player once, can it invite other players to a secret chat, before or after the kill? Or is it one player, one chat, one kill during the entire game?

He can invite other players even after the kill command. That's why I want him to use the command in the chat. The next player he invites to the chat will know he made a kill.

• If the Time Protector targets a player that is about to be NK'd during, for example, Night 1, will the player die on Day 2, or Night 2?

He will die at the start of N2. That action will go before any other action so it can't be avoided.

• Building upon the last question: If the Time Protector and the Jailkeeper target a player about to die on Night 1, who gets priority? If it's the Time Protector, the player will still die on Night 2. If it's the Jailkeeper, the player will not die at all.

The Jailkeeper action goes before the Time Protector so he won't be able to target him. If the Jailkeeper target a player that was targeted for a night kill the night before and protected by the Time Protector the kill command will go first so he will die anyway.

• After the Death Pill uses its power, it will spend one Night + one Day + one Night (not counting the Investigate command here because that's just sending a message to you) without playing until it reappears in the following Day. That could potentially be an entire week depending on the duration of your phases, and could kill the momentum and the enjoyment of the player. I'd change it to make it use the power during a Day, so it only spends one Night away from the game and then it comes back during the next Day.

I thought about that and, because the role can be kind of OP, I wanted him to have a big condition to use it. I realize that maybe I went to far. I can make him send me the command during the first 24hs of the day phase (he can't use it D1, as I don't want the game to go crazy that early) and I would kill him. He can't post during the rest of the day phase and investigate during the night phase. He can be back at the start of the next day phase. So he will miss 4 days top. Also it could raise some red flags with a janitor kill during the day phase, and I like that.

• The Secret Vote is the most OP role during endgame. I'd put some limits on it so they can only hide the votes up until a certain Day.

I can force him to use it until D3.

Finally, I think Mafia should get an useless role too. It's not as bastard for their team with the current design.

I like this idea. Maybe I can change the cannonier for a useless role keeping the lovers.

 

[Pedro]

The map will be there. It will have 4 places: rooms, dinner, rec room and library. I'm going to make them post a move command in the thread where they will spend the night. But it doesn't really matter as it's useless.

And I love this idea. I need to think about how to use this but this will definitely happen.

yessssssss

He is there to throw people off.

If that was your intention, it's okay c:

He can invite other players even after the kill command. That's why I want him to use the command in the chat. The next player he invites to the chat will know he made a kill.

Oooh, i see! I think there was another game in S10 that used new gossip chats for every new invited player; I thought that's what you were going to do. Your way of doing this is more fun.

If the Jailkeeper target a player that was targeted for a night kill the night before and protected by the Time Protector the kill command will go first so he will die anyway.

Thanks for answering the question that I was about to ask :D

• I can make him send me the command during the first 24hs of the day phase (he can't use it D1, as I don't want the game to go crazy that early) and I would kill him. He can't post during the rest of the day phase and investigate during the night phase.
• I can force him to use it until D3.
• I like this idea. Maybe I can change the cannonier for a useless role keeping the lovers.

I am happy with these changes.

 

[Pedro]

the way I review games, I like to go through the roles as separate entities first, and then see the bigger picture. So far it seems fiiine?

 

[Pedro]

I like how the Tracker has a 2/5 chance of targetting an useless townie. They might think the townie is actually someone important :D

 

[Franconp]

I changed the Cannoneer to a useless role where he can redirect his target to another room of his choice (and obviously I don't care). This will also make scum think that the map mechanic is relevant.

 

[Pedro]

If you are willing to go the extra mile, you could post every player's positions on the map at the start of each Day (I think Animal Crossing did this). It would add legitimacy to the map mechanic, everyone would see if they were targeted by a map-related role, and people with such roles would see that their commands worked so they keep thinking it's a real command.

But that would make you keep track of more stuff so I'm not saying you have do to that :P

 

[Franconp]

AC had a map but the positions were definitive and you weren't able to move from your starting place in the map (I know, I played AC and was screwed by my position on the map). I was planning to make them start every day phase in their rooms. From there they could decide to move to another location on the map or just stay where they are. So if no move command is issued they will stay in the rooms.

I'm hoping that they will believe it's a real mechanic when someone with a useless map role flips.

 

[Pedro]

Oh, I only remembered the map picture on the thread.

What if instead you added, in red and bold, the place where they died alongside the role flip?

Like, "Pedro has died in the rec room!". You could come up with those places on the spot, since they don't matter, but it would help making everyone believe the map mechanic is a real thing.

I'm just trying to find ways to fool the players here, lol

 

[Pedro]

I think that, even though it's a bastard game, it's kind to the players.

You could have made a game filled with self-destructive roles, that would hurt them for the sake of the gamerunner and the people in the spectator thread, but it's mostly a lot of misinformation.

 

[Pedro]

Once they realize that, they could play the game as if it's a pure vanilla one

 

[Franconp]

Oh, I only remembered the map picture on the thread.

What if instead you added, in red and bold, the place where they died alongside the role flip?

Like, "Pedro has died in the rec room!". You could come up with those places on the spot, since they don't matter, but it would help making everyone believe the map mechanic is a real thing.

I'm just trying to find ways to fool the players here, lol

I can do that. I will do whatever I can to fool the players.

I think that, even though it's a bastard game, it's kind to the players.

You could have made a game filled with self-destructive roles, that would hurt them for the sake of the gamerunner and the people in the spectator thread, but it's mostly a lot of misinformation.

I didn't wanted to go extra hard on the players. I wanted to mess with them but I still wanted to be fair to them and make a fun game.

Once they realize that, they could play the game as if it's a pure vanilla one

That's the idea of the game. Can they see see through all the lies or they will be paranoid about the mechanics?

 

[Franconp]

Looking at the design I have a doubt and would like a second opinion:

I was thinking about the Paranoid Gossip. I want him to send me his invite command during the day phase. His target would be notified at the start of the next night phase that they have been invited to a secret chat. As that is a day command it won't be affected by any other role (except the silencer). My doubt is with the other command, the Kill. Should that command be affected by another roles. I'm leaning yes, so if the target his jailed he will still participate in the chat but the kill would be prevented or, if targeted by the Time protector, the kill be delayed for the next night. I like it this way because it mess with the players the most. If the gossip tries to kill his target and he doesn't die the next day can be great. That should be ok, right?

Also I'm in doubt with the Paranoid cop. If the Gossip targeted a player during the day phase (and he decide to not use his kill command) and the cop targeted the same player during the night phase, should he still get a scum result? The Gossip action is previous but I like it more that way.

 

[Pedro]

hahahaahah, the gossip kill command should totally be blockable :D That would be very awkward and fun.

Hmm,

Target another player to know their aligment. If he is targeted by any other role the same night he will only show scum results.

I thought the "he" here meant the Paranoid Cop, not the targeted player. I think you should keep consistency and only make night commands change the results for the Paranoid Cop, not day commands.

 

[Franconp]

Hmm,



I thought the "he" here meant the Paranoid Cop, not the targeted player. I think you should keep consistency and only make night commands change the results for the Paranoid Cop, not day commands.

You are right. The original design had the cop getting bad results when he was targeted. I mixed it. So there shouldn't be a problem there.

 

[Franconp]

I have been thinking a bit about the counter. How about if when the counter reaches 0 the bunker declares a curfew so noone is able to move from their rooms that night. Is it too mild?

I was avoiding to change too much the setup and this could make the map mechanic seem more legit. For some extra crazyness I can inform the next day that the NK happened in a different room (like in the rec room) and see how the go crazy with that.

Another possibility was making them choose a executor instead of a lynch that day. The executor will decide who is lynched that day.

 

[Pedro]

I like the curfew idea. Like you said, it reinforces the map mechanic.

 

[Swamped]

Bahaha super lttp but I just read the spreadsheet and I can't stop laughing...how fun for the players >:)

 

[Swamped]

So there is a town/scum lover pair? They share a chat? Is the idea that the town lover thinks they were both die together, but they actually don't?

 

[Franconp]

They share a chat. I was planning to make them die together but I'm not so sure now. If they arrive at Mylo (let's say 4 townies and 3 scum) with the lovers pair alive if town lynches one of the lovers is game over as they would start the night (3vs2). So that could be trouble.

I already lied to the players quite a bit so a small extra lie won't matter. They could be lovers, share a chat but they won't die if the other dies (obviosly both of them won't know about that).

 

[Franconp]

I thought a little more about this and I like more that way. I like how it could work as a trap for scum. If they try to exploit the game sacrificing the scum lover so they can kill 2 townies (the lover and a night kill) they will find out they just lost a partner and no townie dead.

 

[Swamped]

haha love it.

 

[Swamped]

I have been thinking a bit about the counter. How about if when the counter reaches 0 the bunker declares a curfew so noone is able to move from their rooms that night. Is it too mild?

I was avoiding to change too much the setup and this could make the map mechanic seem more legit. For some extra crazyness I can inform the next day that the NK happened in a different room (like in the rec room) and see how the go crazy with that.

Another possibility was making them choose a executor instead of a lynch that day. The executor will decide who is lynched that day.

I like both possibilities. Choosing an executor is part of the game (meaning the timer would actually mean something), whereas the curfew idea is just fluff (although the players don't know it). Another idea I had is that you could do something truly useless, like change the color of the map once the timer reaches zero (hopefully that's not too much additional work for you). That would make the players re-evaluate if the map really means anything or not, and perhaps steer them towards thinking the game is more vanilla than they thought.

 

[Swamped]

I think the roles are good with the modifications made. @Franconp is there anything else you would like us to look at in particular?

I'm excited to see how this game will run/ how much the players are going to hate you after this lol XD

 

[Franconp]

I like both possibilities. Choosing an executor is part of the game (meaning the timer would actually mean something), whereas the curfew idea is just fluff (although the players don't know it). Another idea I had is that you could do something truly useless, like change the color of the map once the timer reaches zero (hopefully that's not too much additional work for you). That would make the players re-evaluate if the map really means anything or not, and perhaps steer them towards thinking the game is more vanilla than they thought.

I could use both ideas.

I could start the counter at 3, when it reaches 0 I use the curfew mechanic. The I start a new counter at 2, when it reachs 0 I do something really useless as change the color of the map. That way they would be expecting the curfew mechanic again and it would surprise them. I'm all in for trolling the players.

If both of you think the game is OK it's enought. The setup is pretty vanilla besides the weird roles and all the useless mechanics and the lies.

 

[Franconp]

I will write the roles PM later and would like both of you to check them out to see if they are clear and I'm not missing something.

I have a couple of days off from work because of carnival so I have free time now.

 

[Franconp]

I have the roles PM:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ynTxbSJSFDxpGQlXL7uTbVoeW7NcCalVB-WvQltzoww/edit?usp=sharing

If both of you can, please check them out to see if they are clear and easy to understand.

Thanks.

 

[Franconp]

And here is the map:

Yes, I know that it's not pretty but I totally suck at this. And it's useless.

 

[Pedro]

I thought a little more about this and I like more that way. I like how it could work as a trap for scum. If they try to exploit the game sacrificing the scum lover so they can kill 2 townies (the lover and a night kill) they will find out they just lost a partner and no townie dead.

Oooooh, i like this too :D

I could use both ideas.

I could start the counter at 3, when it reaches 0 I use the curfew mechanic. The I start a new counter at 2, when it reachs 0 I do something really useless as change the color of the map. That way they would be expecting the curfew mechanic again and it would surprise them. I'm all in for trolling the players.

If both of you think the game is OK it's enought. The setup is pretty vanilla besides the weird roles and all the useless mechanics and the lies.

Yeah, i'm approving the game right now :3

I have the roles PM:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ynTxbSJSFDxpGQlXL7uTbVoeW7NcCalVB-WvQltzoww/edit?usp=sharing

If both of you can, please check them out to see if they are clear and easy to understand.

Thanks.

I'm going to take a look at this now.

 

[Pedro]

I made some suggestions for the role PMs~

 

[Franconp]

I think the changes are OK.

@Pedro When do you think the game could run? How is the schedule?

Also I though some interesting mechanics that would love to try but I think the game is ok as it is. So if the game runs ok I may make Conspiracy 2.

 

[Pedro]

You'd have to talk with neeks or monkey about that, Fran; I guess April at the earliest but I have no idea.

 

[Pedro]

Since swampie apparently is okay with the PMs, as of now this game is greenlit and ready to launch. Thanks, everyone!

 

[Franconp]

Thanks for the help Swamped and Pedro.

Both of you are great!!!

 

[Pedro]

Hi hi, everyone!

We're making some changes in the review process, and I need to ask an additional thing from you, @Franconp :

Could you share with us the priority list for night actions? So we know which role will act before which. Thanks!

 

[Franconp]

Hi hi, everyone!

We're making some changes in the review process, and I need to ask an additional thing from you, @Franconp :

Could you share with us the priority list for night actions? So we know which role will act before which. Thanks!

Done. It was added to the setup.

 

[Franconp]

Because of something that happened today in TMBG I realized that my role flavour hints most of the roles and that could be bad for scum. I wil just mix the roles to avoid that.