Spectator Thread GoT and TMBG Spectator Thread

Discussion in 'Season 12' started by Pedro, Aug 12, 2018.

  1. Pedro

    Pedro The Last Airbender is actually a great movie

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    don't ask me to do shitty gifs, that's my one weakness

    [​IMG]

    edit: for the ones who are in this gif and may see it later, pls don't take it seriously it's just a small joke <3
     
  2. Poltergust

    Poltergust Member

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    AB won't get voted out. Vere cleared him and his role reveal will confirm that.

    It really just comes down to who AB decides to lynch. Based off his voting record, I have exactly 0 faith in him (sorry if this offends you, AB, but being on exactly 0 scum lynches at LYLO is impressive in its own right).
     
  3. TearablePuns

    TearablePuns Active Member

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    i cant right now lol

    Good point. Kits it is.
     
  4. rac

    rac whatever

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    lmao they didn't even make worthy vote

    this shit is too much
     
  5. Franconp

    Franconp Frank

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    We said something like that about Godfather and now here we are.

    Town will be town.
     
  6. rac

    rac whatever

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    i dont even believe this anymore
     
  7. Brazil

    Brazil Well-Known Member

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    Scum off to a great start this season!
     
  8. Godfather

    Godfather Member

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    I voted myself cause of the Vere vote, that IMO, should either count, or is cheating. Either way, I won't be unhappy if town loses, cause the game should have been done yesterday, but people never fucking listen. I can't believe Kitsune is playing this badly. I thought for sure she was scum, cause the alternative is just massively disappointing. I don't understand how it wasn't all crystal clear to everyone.
     
  9. Godfather

    Godfather Member

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    There really is no cop? That's a bullshit move apofiniac. Once you troll the playerslike that, we can't trust anything in what is supposed to be a Normal game. Who approved this game?
     
  10. Pedro

    Pedro The Last Airbender is actually a great movie

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    It says here that the reviewers were cabot and squidyj. I don't think neither them or Apo himself wanted to "troll" the players with the setup as it is, and since the designers are not responsible for categorizing their own games, I think it's unfair to treat Apo like that.

    When I review games I treat lies, no matter how explicit or implicit, as elements of a bastard game, but I don't think the reviewers currently have a standard approach to it, so it ends up depending on how the reviewers individually see the setup.
     
  11. heymonkey

    heymonkey yesssss my guinea pigs

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    There is an effort to standardize review protocol under way, so.
     
  12. Godfather

    Godfather Member

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    Fuck's sake Cabot.
     
  13. Natiko

    Natiko Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer

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    My understanding was we only generally labeled games as bastard if they went to extreme lengths. GOT is more bastard than TMBG, but even GOT wasn’t bastard enough to be tagged as such.
     
  14. Godfather

    Godfather Member

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    D
    Did I see that GoT has a recruiter, and it wasn't marked as bastard!? This is making me really angry. I feel like I need to get back into reviewing apparently. I always run out of time or forget though, so that's on me too. I'm just really aggravated in general right now.
     
  15. Godfather

    Godfather Member

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    Because you can never trust our players to do the incredibly obvious pro-town thing.
     
  16. Natiko

    Natiko Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer

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    A recruiter limited to only within the first two days, only a specific subset of people eligible, and at max one player recruited. I take it you prefer a hardline stance where a godfather or miller would be bastard?
     
  17. Pedro

    Pedro The Last Airbender is actually a great movie

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    See, I don't see a recruiter role as anything bastard-y, as I don't think an alignment change is the same thing as false information; the player's previous alignment was true then, and their current alignment is also true now. The definition of "bastard" varies to begin with, especially between communities, but the definition we run with is the one found here: https://www.outermafia.com/index.php?threads/168/

     
  18. OceanicAir

    OceanicAir 4 8 15 16 23 42

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    There was a cop right? That could have led to some serious WWE situations and nobody wants WWE situations lol
     
  19. Natiko

    Natiko Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer

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    Not familiar with what happened in that game (only the infamy that follows it). How would a cop check on a recruit be functionally different than a cop check on a godfather?
     
  20. Lone_Prodigy

    Lone_Prodigy Am I at 10 posts yet?

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    For the new page.
     
  21. Natiko

    Natiko Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer

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    Town is just going at each other in GOT lol ET has one player leaning scum on him, but he doesn’t even seem like their top choice. This is over.
     
  22. Godfather

    Godfather Member

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    Yes. There should be normal, semi bastard, and fully bastard.
     
  23. Godfather

    Godfather Member

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    A recruiter is the epitome of negative play experience. You start on one team, do everything you can to help them win, then get yanked to a different team? That’s fucking annoying.

    Remember that super helpful townienhat got green checked day 1? Lol nope he was recruited and now you lose. I could go on.

    Hell, we literally ran into the falsified information bit of that bastard description with the tracker and bus driver.
     
    #1323 Godfather, Sep 17, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
  24. Natiko

    Natiko Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer

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    What would be the line between semi and fully bastard?
     
  25. Poltergust

    Poltergust Member

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    But... Vere unvoted and brought your “total” back down to 1. You were the deciding vote on your lynch, not Vere.
     
  26. Poltergust

    Poltergust Member

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    That said, considering that AB voted for you over Kits for... some reason, that means that this game is already lost if that was a preview to how a final day of you vs. AB vs. TWE would've gone.

    Honestly, now AB is just a complete wildcard with who he’ll choose to vote for between Kits and TWE.
     
  27. Pedro

    Pedro The Last Airbender is actually a great movie

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    I disagree with how unpleasant it can be, but I see where you're coming from. I'll say that more than just getting back to review games to make sure they follow your view on these subjects, you should let the Review Team know your thoughts so they can change the way every game is worked on. I don't think they are in the spec chat right now, nor do I know if they will be paying attention to it in the future, so maybe send them (roy, febe) a PM with these concerns.
     
  28. cabot

    cabot Why.

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    I'm not sorry. It's not bastard because there are no. Direct lies from the mod.

    I mean the alternative you guys had was a neutral Cop. Good one.


    If you lose it wasn't because of the godfather
     
  29. Stuart444

    Stuart444 Well-Known Member

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    If Town loses, it's because no one thought "huh, Monkey died yet the most town read TWE is still alive?"

    Yes yes, WIFOM but fuck that, I'd want to test that regardless because a Town TWE has no real use to scum alive (he's not lynchable enough to be left alive and too town read to not be killed)
     
  30. Stuart444

    Stuart444 Well-Known Member

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    I also won't be surprised if I wake up tomorrow to a turbo and Town loses :(
     
  31. Geno

    Geno Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, it's definitely not bastard and I was saying this since the start.
     
  32. Splinter

    Splinter Lord of Volcano Island

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    The existence of the recruiter and its limitations were listed in every scum role PM.

    I don't like recruiters, but it's not bastard
     
  33. Splinter

    Splinter Lord of Volcano Island

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    Godfather without cop also isn't bastard. That very common matrix setup we tried can have that
     
  34. cabot

    cabot Why.

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    I still don't understand how godfather got lynched though
     
  35. heymonkey

    heymonkey yesssss my guinea pigs

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    Maybe. Yes in that there was a failed "kill" on TWE but he was also in the lynch order.

    If town loses it's because they don't stick to the lynches.
     
  36. TheChuggernaut

    TheChuggernaut I'm always town.

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    Kitsune voted Godfather for some reason, and then AB voted Godfather for some fucking reason. Then instead of turboing Kitsune, Vere just kind of waited around, and then Godfather turbo'd himself.

    There's no way town pulls this off. Vere is the only one who isn't just spinning and circles and even if Worthy doesn't kill him, Vere is probably going to vote Kitsune instead of him. Kitsune hasn't really done herself any favors with these last couple of days. I swear, I half expect AB to try to kill Vere at this point, not because he thinks he's scum, but because he's worried he's neutral or something
     
  37. Lone_Prodigy

    Lone_Prodigy Am I at 10 posts yet?

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    If scum wins, yeah TWE was great, but town played itself. As usual.
     
  38. Godfather

    Godfather Member

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    Mafiasfum wiki:

    On mafiascum.net, several Queue threads require a game with any of the mechanics in the list below to be labelled as "bastard":

    Recruiters are absolutely under that second bullet point. Zero ambiguity. I’d argue that having a godfather with no cop or ninja with no tracker would fall under point three as an implicit lie to the players.
     
  39. Splinter

    Splinter Lord of Volcano Island

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    This isn't mafiascum, we've had recruiters in non bastard games before, and this recruit mechanic was significantly weakened.

    GoT was already advertised on the crazier side of normal, I think
     
  40. Godfather

    Godfather Member

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    And apologies about the cheating part. I don’t think that kind of fake voting should be ok, but I did not see Vere had unvoted. Either way, it’s now how I would want to win. Still would have self hammered to end it cause i just don’t think we deserve a win anyway. I’m decent at Mafia but I have zero patience
     
  41. Godfather

    Godfather Member

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    So the argument is it’s not bastard because some of you don’t want it to be. Cool. Good luck.
     
  42. The Bear

    The Bear Obligatory Gay Bear of the Society

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    As a note @Godfather , we've had games with cults that haven't been labeled bastard either. If we want to start to follow the mafiascum definition of bastard, it has to be made as a community decision.
     
  43. Natiko

    Natiko Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer

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    The full wiki page also clearly talks about how it varies from player to player and features quotes that indicate GOT would not even be considered bastard by several of the people they sought input from. Their queue system seems designed to try and standardize the definition for their community, but it doesn’t mean the wiki page agrees that it’s the one true definition for all of mafia. If you really think a recruit that can only be used on vanilla town, only before D3, only once, that is revealed in every scum PM, and that if lynched the recruited player would be revealed as scum is a huge bastard experience then okay. I just don’t see how this setup would be as huge of a swing the way you’re implying. If a godfather getting green checked isn’t bastard neither is a player getting recruited N2 that got greenchecked N1 (which by the way is literally the only way this could have happened, had they been checked N2 it would’ve pinged scum).
     
  44. Godfather

    Godfather Member

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    It’s fine. If everyone here is okay with mods trolling their players, so be it. I’ve always been an outlier about rules, cheating, standardized practices, etc.

    Speaking of, why the fuck isn’t the mafia kill mandatory in our community yet? I raised this issue way back in MGS and thought it was settled.
     
  45. Brazil

    Brazil Well-Known Member

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    nin is keeping his cool and trying to figure things out. Go nin!
     
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  46. Pedro

    Pedro The Last Airbender is actually a great movie

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    what do you propose, palmer? that if the mafia team forget to kill someone, a player is randomly chosen to die? i'm kinda with you on it, and am curious on how you'd solve the issue.
     
  47. The Bear

    The Bear Obligatory Gay Bear of the Society

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    I don't think cults are cheating and trolling, personally.

    I do agree with you that the mafia faction kill should be mandatory. But like Pedro, I wonder what would be best way to enforce it.
     
  48. Stuart444

    Stuart444 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't mind that myself lol.
     
  49. cabot

    cabot Why.

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    Random non scum roll to determine the kill would be the safest option
     
  50. Natiko

    Natiko Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer

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    Lolll scum out here just stylin on town now.
     
  51. Franconp

    Franconp Frank

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    Wait, GoT wasn't announced as bastard?

    I thought that we agreed in the review board that it was bastard.
     
  52. Splinter

    Splinter Lord of Volcano Island

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    This is my favourite #self-read
     
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  53. Natiko

    Natiko Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer

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    I just went back and looked, it was bastard in the earlier versions and then we toned it down. You said elements of it could be considered bastard, with the recruit being the one that stood out the most. That’s when we decided to limit it to only the first two days. After that we never discussed it again, so I guess perhaps we should have circled back around to that topic? It was flagged as unusual instead of bastard.
     
  54. rac

    rac whatever

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    got and giants are like complete opposites

    even though there's more scum in thrones everyone is read as town whereas we have one scum left in giants but everyone is scum
     
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  55. Natiko

    Natiko Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer

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    Pretty clear how this is going to end. Wish they’d just go ahead and do it.
     
  56. B-dubs

    B-dubs Active Member

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    Seriously, just turbo and be done with it
     
  57. flatearthpandas

    flatearthpandas Round Moon Bears

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    Eh, maybe still too soon for a real post with this drama.

    No problems with recruit as I joined the game expecting it to be a bit bastard.

    My only real complaints about GoT are balance and about basing modkills off of actual inactive time of a role and not just the player.

    I think Splinter is really the only one in here still dragging around the fake red check cross and that ensuing drama really didn't affect him except outside the game. Speaking only for myself, I never meant to bully melon about it and when it came up in later phases, it was meant to draw relevant opinions from players in the game, not to stick my tongue out at anyone outside of the game. I'd be happy to play another game with her and don't think badly upon her as a person and I think any insinuation otherwise is misconstrued.

    Tbh, goes for much of the game. I got legit angry exactly one time, early game, and I did actually almost override faddy out of spite at that time only. It flared up a few times after, once when I was pretty drunk, but the only time I actually ever seriously considered using my power in a way that was openly against my team interest was that first time. And tbh I'm still incensed to this day that Faddy never apologized. Those feelings will probably carry to other games beyond this and that is actual meta and really can't be helped. Despite having no hard feelings against melon, I won't be able to believe her claims in further games that same as I would other players and that is again actual meta and can't be helped. Meta isn't a fun edge, it is a real thing that we can't really control. Not meant to make people feel bad but it is what it is.

    I was both purposefully and accidentally aggressive and hostile in GoT and that is real meta that will carry to further games for other people. I felt like my game face broke down for both B-dubs and Fantomas where I tried to help and encourage when the line was crossed but it also seemed like that went unnoticed and I worry dubs at least, especially after reading spec, will always just think of me poorly. But I earned that meta and I don't see the point in fighting about it. So it goes.
     
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  58. Stuart444

    Stuart444 Well-Known Member

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    There it is I guess...
     
  59. B-dubs

    B-dubs Active Member

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    Oh, ImI fine wit
    Oh I'm fine with you. I don't really hold grudges, we just have wildly different styles. I come from a background where I learned to just let people hang themselves and you look to do the hanging.

    Anyway, looks like Nicole is about to wrap this game up.
     
  60. Stuart444

    Stuart444 Well-Known Member

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    GG GoT Scum.
     
  61. B-dubs

    B-dubs Active Member

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    And there's the turbo.
     
  62. flatearthpandas

    flatearthpandas Round Moon Bears

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    Man, on thread, prepared to wake up to disappointment. Nin seemed to have it going okay but it's hard to not understand why the town would lynch him. ET and nicole just celebrating though lol
     
  63. flatearthpandas

    flatearthpandas Round Moon Bears

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  64. B-dubs

    B-dubs Active Member

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    So I've never seen a game end before, will the runners just call it here or is there going to be one last night phase?
     
  65. Stuart444

    Stuart444 Well-Known Member

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    Should call it here. It's 2/2 and thus Town loses. The night would only be needed if scum needed another NK to win.
     
  66. Pedro

    Pedro The Last Airbender is actually a great movie

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    Since Mafia can try to kill anyone and they'll succeed, usually the gamerunners just ignore that part since it's guaranteed that scum will kill a townie and obtain the majority of the votes.

    But if there were still a Town protective role in place, like a Doctor, there would be an extra night phase to see if Mafia would hit the right target
     
  67. flatearthpandas

    flatearthpandas Round Moon Bears

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    They'll kill it now unless there's some power that can turn the tables
     
  68. heymonkey

    heymonkey yesssss my guinea pigs

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  69. Pedro

    Pedro The Last Airbender is actually a great movie

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  70. flatearthpandas

    flatearthpandas Round Moon Bears

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    :joffrey:
     
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  71. flatearthpandas

    flatearthpandas Round Moon Bears

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    Dammit pedro lol
     
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  72. B-dubs

    B-dubs Active Member

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    I love how Kopite realized what was going on at the very end and still did it.

    Nicole is very good at this.
     
  73. OceanicAir

    OceanicAir 4 8 15 16 23 42

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    Under all of the regrettable stuff, I'm really impressed by all of the new players. There was a lot of good analysis done by them and I do hope that they aren't too put out by the experience.
     
  74. SweetNicole

    SweetNicole Member

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    I did it for you bby
     
  75. SweetNicole

    SweetNicole Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  76. Natiko

    Natiko Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer

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    I appreciate it lol Was excruciating to watch once it was clear everyone had nin in common.
     
  77. SweetNicole

    SweetNicole Member

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    my only hesitation was that bringing up the "well should we just get it over with?" might be seen a scum indicative or something

    I debated waiting until the end of the day because it seemed like "why try and force the end now instead of just waiting for a sure thing a day later" but in the end decided the risk of that happening was basically zero
     
  78. Sawneeks

    Sawneeks Queen Doppelpopolis

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    Perfection
     
  79. Fanto

    Fanto Confirmed Town

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    Got caught up on the last couple pages in here. Sorry for letting everyone down, I couldn't read zook, include, or nicole, and I was on to ET too late. Nin, God dammit nin.
     
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  80. Splinter

    Splinter Lord of Volcano Island

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    Classic nin
     
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  81. Gorlak

    Gorlak Is not technically Roytheone

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    The problem was the day before. Kawl was a zero info lynch. Nin would've provided some light on Include, this was said in the thread. Kawl was only chosen because he was inactive, I don't think people had on the radar how little info that flip gave.

    You did your best, sometimes the baddies win.
     
  82. Fanto

    Fanto Confirmed Town

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    Yeah well I couldn't read Kawl, Trigger, Indy, Kits, ET, CeeCee, or Nin either. My big problem was trying to keep track of the 73 replacements we had and how their varying playstyles and posting frequencies informed my reads on them. I really sucked at doing that.
     
  83. Fanto

    Fanto Confirmed Town

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    My reads on include and nicole were so embarrassing, I lost us the game single handedly.
     
  84. briefs_cat

    briefs_cat Member

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    well to your credit Nicole was incredibly good coming into the game so late and Include also did a good job imo.
    I just hope I don't roll scum next game, I'm terrible at scum :P
     
  85. OceanicAir

    OceanicAir 4 8 15 16 23 42

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    Please, PLEASE don't beat yourself up over this, this is a team game. For a first player you did an incredible job (hell, even beyond being a new player, it was great job period). The name of game is for people to betray your trust and you can trust me in that pretty much everyone here has some sort of story of being bamboozled by someone else. It won't be long until you're doing the bamboozling yourself! We're not just saying all this praise just to be nice, we mean it!
     
  86. briefs_cat

    briefs_cat Member

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    nah, Mafia is a team effort so your team lost the game, you didn't cause your team to lose all by yourself. It's a back and forth anyway, Town will win some games and scum will win others just the way it is
     
  87. heymonkey

    heymonkey yesssss my guinea pigs

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    You absolutely never lose the game singlehandedly. No one does. No one. It's not a platitude; it's the truth.

    Seriously, you did GREAT. Sometimes you're gonna be wrong. At least you didn't do something really stupid, like give Sorian every scum power in the universe and activate him as an uberscum or anything.

    >.>
    <.<

    Not that I've ever done that.
     
  88. nin1000

    nin1000 Chilean German Madman

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    i love you all.
    i had a ton of fun.
    i even admitted to be a bad player.
    But damn do i have fun to mess with some of you
     
  89. Natiko

    Natiko Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer

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    Don’t even start with that. You did amazing, and had you not put in the effort you did town very well may have lost even earlier. Mistakes happen along the way though. Hopefully you feel like you had a good time and received some takeaways that can help next time out!

    Well, I don’t know if I’d say neeeever. Remember that time all of town agreed Sawrian was scum but I was stubborn and made you all lynch a fellow townie instead? Good times. Actually scratch that you’re right. I blame everyone else for that one ;)

    I’m glad you had a good time. I’m looking forward to lynching you in the next game we play! :D
     
  90. Fanto

    Fanto Confirmed Town

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    I definitely had a good time, but I don't really know what to take away.

    My main takeaway is that my inability to see through scummy replacement players basically cost us the game over the last two days.

    I also think that if the scum team were seeking replacements just to mess with the town's reads (which is what the late Include drop felt like to me looking at her last post in the thread) then that should not be allowed at all in the future because that is some next-level scum play.
     
  91. Natiko

    Natiko Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer

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    One thing to keep in mind is to not let the fact that a new player is in the slot overwrite how you felt about a different player in said slot. Look at their words, and perhaps most importantly their actions, as a whole. Once you get into late game looking at voting records can be one of the more useful things, especially when there are still players that are question marks to you.

    Also, I can promise you that is not what happened. Include had a serious issue come up that precluded her ability to play to the point that she subbed out knowing there was a pretty good chance her slot would have to be modkilled.
     
  92. Fanto

    Fanto Confirmed Town

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    (I swear I'll drop it after this, I just want one last chance to vent about how I felt on D9 and D10 with all the replacements. I had a really fun time overall and I'm going to keep playing with you guys in the future for sure).

    Well one of my problems was definitely not letting myself override how I felt about the previous players in Nicole's spot. With Zook he had like what, 20 posts in the thread when he left. It was all mainly regarding D1 and D2, and it was almost impossible for me to read into it. Include also made a small amount of posts and seemed determined to play in her own way, I couldn't read into it. Nicole barely had a chance to get in but was determined from the start. It all seemed fine and I couldn't erase what the past players did since none of them said anything scummy from what I could see. It was the votes, yeah, that I should have looked at, but I felt like I could explain people's votes in 1000 different ways, there were some rough days.

    In hindsight it was all obvious, but at the time there was no way for me to get a good read on what little there was to go on and I basically gave up on ever voting for that spot when Nicole subbed in because I was just so sick of reading new replacement players. It's one of the reasons in the back of my mind that I wanted to vote for Kawl on D9. He came in hot at the end of D8 and then barely posted after that. I was glad when FEPs asked for a modkill on him on D8, I really didn't want to try reading that spot after it was inactive for like 4 straight day phases, I just didn't want to play with him anymore.

    Anyways, yeah, I guess my takeaway is that I should always be wary of replacement players no matter what, and my feedback would be that if someone is inactive for almost 4 straight day phases then they should be modkilled, period.

    And just to end on a positive note, THANK YOU WHOEVER ADDED THIS!!! SERIOUSLY!!!!
    :joffrey::joffrey::joffrey::joffrey::joffrey::joffrey::joffrey:
     
  93. Natiko

    Natiko Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer

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    @Fantomas

    To be fair, the situations were different. Even if we had agreed to modkill the slot Kawl took over due to how consistently inactive it had been that would not have happened in Include’s case. She was not kicked due to inactivity, it was because she had real life issues that prevented her from playing. She had met the minimum requirement in every full day phase she played prior to that. The functional result would have been Town gets one less lynch to find scum and you still would have ended up in lylo with nin.
     
  94. Fanto

    Fanto Confirmed Town

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    Oh yeah, I wasn't referring to Include's spot there, just saying how hopeless I felt trying to read a spot that had 2 replacements in it and were both pretty low on the total post-count. Indy/Trigger/Kawl was the one that really bugged me, for Zook/Include/Nicole it was more on me just giving up on trying to get a good read out of those players. I tried my best but failed in the end, which is where my embarrassment about it comes from.
     
  95. Natiko

    Natiko Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer

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    You really have no reason to be embarrassed. Trust me, a lot of us have had far, farrrr worse moments lol Ultimately the replacements in this game did make it challenging, especially for a new player I’m sure. There’s no real defined way to handle such situations. And honestly, the sheer number of replacements in GOT is a big outlier compared to the norm. They do happen though, and it can take time to get comfortable with how you approach them. Some players will push to lynch low activity players/slots early on to avoid them getting to the end game. Something to keep in mind is there are players in the community that will spend an entire game barely skirting the minimum. It’s not impossible to reach lylo at like Day 7 and have a player that has less than 70 posts, some of which (or all) are minimal in content. You just eventually find the way that you approach said players as you play more games.
     
  96. The Bear

    The Bear Obligatory Gay Bear of the Society

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    Tbh last day in TMBG will be interesting. AB will be cleared townie, but he also seems to trust kitsu.
     
  97. TheChuggernaut

    TheChuggernaut I'm always town.

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    Kitsune reads scum as fuck. Which means AB probably won’t kill her
     
  98. TheChuggernaut

    TheChuggernaut I'm always town.

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    It might be the smart play to leave Vere alive at this point
     
  99. rac

    rac whatever

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    somehow vere tracking abo was game losing
     
  100. TheChuggernaut

    TheChuggernaut I'm always town.

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    I do kind of wonder how things would of played out if he tracked Kitsune or me again.