Berserk Design Thread

[Atheon]

yn

Apr 24 2017 at 5:43pm

Sheet is here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DmQuHd82qQ8RCJN_ntHFQDTvtLuyXx7t0aqBLgWBIZg/edit#gid=0

 

[Atheon]

franconp

Apr 28 2017 at 3:47am

Some thougts:
- First that came to mind: That's a lot of kills!! You have the random kills on even nights, 2 shot vigilante, lynch bomb, double night kills, and the sacrifice. I haven't studied the worst scenario yet. Will do later.
- Guts role (Berseker) I think won't be used by town at all. It doesn't benefit them. When the game start it's more likely to hit another townie and near the end game could be too risky. Maybe offering some incentive to use the role or something.
- How will the spy work? It's a difficult role. If there's a name of a scum player would that be revealed too?
- Does Griffin lose his scum ability if he uses the townie one. Also, can he use the Sacrifice near game end? (Lylo, Mylo)
- How does the recruiter works? How many shots? His target becomes scum? What happens if Griffin decide to make the sacrifice? We could be having a 6 players scum team, which seems too big for a 20 players game.
- How will the people framed work with the weak cop?
I will look more into it later.

 

[Atheon]

yn

Apr 28 2017 at 3:55am

1. yeah, stan wants as many kills as possible. but yep, i certainly thought about the game ending potentially at D3 or sommit. lol. can tweak numbers of kills and make a limited shot on a few of them.
2. sure, can find an incentive to the berserker role
3. there was a spy also in burb's earlier game. i or stan will choose which sentence is revealed, though. so im thinking nothing incriminating. wifom stuff only.
4. griffith can switch from town to scum once during the game. it's not both. and no, as noted in the desc, he cant use lynchproof on lylo/mylo.
5. recruiter puts out a command like INVITE: Player every night to find Griffith. He cant recruit any other player. He can only recruit Griffith. If Griffith already made the SACRIFICE, then Recruiter automatically become Bodyguard.
6. Weak Cop will only die if hiding behind TRUE scum.
(ty for comments so far) (:D)

 

[Atheon]

yn

Apr 28 2017 at 9:34pm

Hi, so Stan suggested that the Berserker role will be modified in that their kill target will be communicated to them prior to Day Phase starts and then they can cancel out of their Berserker kill if they would like to keep that player alive.
As for kill numbers -
Odd:
Day: 1 Lynch
Night: 1 mafia kill + 1 vigilante (2-shots) + 1 sacrifice (1-shot) + 1 Wolf Cub kill (1-shot)
Even:
Day: 2 (vengeful lynch)
Night: 1 mafia kill + 1 berserker + 1 hider + 1 sacrifice (1-shot) + 1 Wolf Cub kill (1-shot)
The likelihood of all kills going through with Switcher, Doctor, Reviver, Bulletproof, Roleblock and Hider in play is probably ... not super high?

 

[Atheon]

Coppanuva

May 4 2017 at 7:03am

Can you expand the timing of the berserker communication a bit better? Specifically when it comes to the hider. If it randomly rolls hider, and hider hides with town, no kill happens right? Or is the intended behavior to pull hider from the random list if they're successfully hidden? I assume the first, but want to be sure.
Otherwise yeah it;'s a lot of kills. I feel like this will kinda devolve into chaos within about the first 2 full phases, with all the protect/cop roles and kills in play.
Will post more if I think of anything that jumps out.

 

[Atheon]

yn

May 4 2017 at 1:58pm

Yes, if berserker rolls hider and hider hides with town, no kills happened.
ty for comment/review. let me know if there's other thingies that jumps at u later :D

 

[Atheon]

yn

May 11 2017 at 11:34pm

Thanks Coppa and Franco for reviews so far
Once a game reaches a GREEN LIGHT status for reviewer, please let us know, thank you~

 

[Atheon]

franconp

May 15 2017 at 3:48pm

Some questions:
- If the Spy gets results from even nights he can't get results from the Masons (Odd night)? Or he can get a result from the last day?
- How will the bluffer work? What happens if the try to fake an Override? I'm not too sure about this role. Also being townie it isn't very benefitial.
- Will players know if Griffin activated lynchproof?
- Regarding the Behelit mechanic. Anyone besides Griffin will know what it does? Also is there any way prevent that town start claiming who has the Behelit? Because if everyone start claiming Griffin won't be able to use it as it will be obvious that he used it when he doesn't pass it. Or after the sacrifice the Behelit still moves around?

 

[Atheon]

yn

May 15 2017 at 4:20pm

1. No, on Even Nights he will only get results from the scummies. But again, me and stanley will choose the sentence and it will not be anything revealing.
2. Any red text command will get the reply "Confirm". Nothing happens otherwise. Player will know this in their role PM (That the only reply from GM will be "Confirm" in the game thread). There is no actual effect otherwise. Role is designed so that a smart player can hopefully indicate the effect will take in the next phase or sommit. And it is given to town so they can analyse the reactions of other players. But knowing gafia, im sure it will be used terribly :3
3. Will confer with Stan and get back to u on this one. What would u suggest?
4. The Behelit will arrive with a message when it comes to a player explaining that it is basically like the One Ring looking for its Sauron Master. I imagine town will claim that it was roleblocked because they held the Behelit in the previous Night phase, before they pass it on. If they don't pass it on, they get roleblocked permanently. That's why Griff is provided with another fake claim (Judeau) who is a good guy. After the Sacrifice, it stops moving around.

 

[Atheon]

franconp

May 15 2017 at 4:53pm

3. I think it should alert the players he is lynchproof. Not allowing to vote for him. Not telling could lead to complications and could be worse for the player.
4. That's my problem. If they start claiming when the Behelit stops the one who pass it last will know that Griffin used it, so he will be in trouble the next day. Maybe doing the passing randomly?

 

[Atheon]

franconp

May 15 2017 at 4:57pm

Also what happens when a players get the Behelit and is NK or lynched?

 

[Atheon]

yn

May 15 2017 at 5:07pm

3. okay, fair!

4. griff was designed as a limited-life role if he converted to scummies. he does not need to convert to scummies, but if he does, he gets lynchproof for the day after, and then he's supposed to be gone. this generates a guaranteed event / contents for the game. if he stays as town, he is rewarded with the ability to continuously play for town's victory. but i see your points, hum hum hum. i'll discuss it with stanley and get back to you. i do see the appeal of making the behelit targets randomly, too!
5. if the behelit sits with a player who is NKed / lynched, it will be RNGed to the next recipient.
thanks fran :D

 

[Atheon]

Coppanuva

May 15 2017 at 6:32pm

How random do you/the spy think the sentence will be? And is it going to be from the previous phase or the entire game?

also RE: Bluffer, is that a 1 shot period, or 1x a day? Additionally, are you planning on flavored action commands or standard, and does the bluffer know? My concern is that there's little to no incentive to actually use bluff as town, it only leads to more confusion, and is risky if they have to guess if it's a non-flavored vs flavored action text.
I do have to say I think playing this as town is going to be extremely frustrating since there's likely to be a lot of death quick and not much else to go on.
From a balance standpoint though I don't really have any problems with it though.

 

[Atheon]

yn

May 15 2017 at 7:07pm

Spy will get a sentence from the same night phase's chat. It will probably be pretty random and NAI but wifommy
Bluffer is 1x for entire game. Vote will be Vote:[Player] so, pretty standard, but other night commands and the Day Override will be flavoursome. Im hoping that it will be like "Clang: [Player]" or "RISE THE CURTAINS OF THE FIVE ANGELS: Coppanuva"
:3
Well, stan wants loads of deaths! So i made him a set up with LOADS OF DEATHS !!!!!!
DEAAAAAAAAATTTHHHHHH
DEAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHHH
FORTHWARD EORLINGASSSSSSSS

 

[Atheon]

yn

May 15 2017 at 7:28pm

Oh also i think the death toll might seem inflated since we've only been looking at the killing roles. If we factor in the protective roles, it may not be as bloody as it seems at first?
For example, N1:
1 NK + 1 Vigi ... COUNTERED by Reviver = total damage: 2 kills at worst, 1 kill if reviver pulls a revive
N2 is the potential blood bath:
1 NK + 1 Berserk + 1 Hider .... but there's Doctor and Strongman on Even Nights to alleviate those potential deaths...

 

[Atheon]

stanleypalmtree

May 15 2017 at 7:44pm

so i have an idea about the behelit,
the behelit can still be passed around like before, but it has the added condition that if its holder is killed by scum, then it will go straight to griffith. however everytime that someone gets possession of the behelit they are told of this possibility. i figure this should prevent people from blabbing away about it, and also get scum involved with the whole mechanic in a more active way

 

[Atheon]

franconp

May 16 2017 at 8:43am

May 15 2017 at 7:28pm yn said:
Oh also i think the death toll might seem inflated since we've only been looking at the killing roles. If we factor in the protective roles, it may not be as bloody as it seems at first?
For example, N1:
1 NK + 1 Vigi ... COUNTERED by Reviver = total damage: 2 kills at worst, 1 kill if reviver pulls a revive
N2 is the potential blood bath:
1 NK + 1 Berserk + 1 Hider .... but there's Doctor and Strongman on Even Nights to alleviate those potential deaths...

I thought the same about Arkham and the reviver never used his role and the medic didn't cure anyone.

 

[Atheon]

franconp

May 16 2017 at 8:52am

May 15 2017 at 7:44pm stanleypalmtree said:
so i have an idea about the behelit,
the behelit can still be passed around like before, but it has the added condition that if its holder is killed by scum, then it will go straight to griffith. however everytime that someone gets possession of the behelit they are told of this possibility. i figure this should prevent people from blabbing away about it, and also get scum involved with the whole mechanic in a more active way

Sharing that info could be giving to much about the game mechanic. I find it more interesting that they don't know the true objetive of the item. You could share that info with the scum members maybe? Only in the scum chat. Would that be fair? Regarding the dead player with the Behelit, you could allow the dead to make a last command to pass the item? Or maybe returning to the previous user? Could scum exploit that?
What happens to the Behelit if Griffith is recruited? It dissapear also?
Maybe you could keep the Behelit after Griffith uses the sacrifice or is recruited, that way, if they decide to share who has the Behelit, Griffith can use the sacrifice and still pass it so he don't reveal himself.

 

[Atheon]

yn

May 16 2017 at 5:13pm

May 16 2017 at 8:43am franconp said:

May 15 2017 at 7:28pm yn said:
Oh also i think the death toll might seem inflated since we've only been looking at the killing roles. If we factor in the protective roles, it may not be as bloody as it seems at first?
For example, N1:
1 NK + 1 Vigi ... COUNTERED by Reviver = total damage: 2 kills at worst, 1 kill if reviver pulls a revive
N2 is the potential blood bath:
1 NK + 1 Berserk + 1 Hider .... but there's Doctor and Strongman on Even Nights to alleviate those potential deaths...

I thought the same about Arkham and the reviver never used his role and the medic didn't cure anyone.

i hope they.... they will learn from past mistakes ; ___ ; is it too much to hope for? :D
As for the Behelit, I am okay with making it still go around even after Griff used it. Stan, your opinions?
Alternatively, what do you guys think of making the Behelit a JAIL function to the player who received it (i.e. that player is jailed = cant use their night commands, BUT they are also made immune to kills, since they are jailed)? It might further reduce the death toll somewhat?

 

[Atheon]

franconp

May 17 2017 at 10:03am

A jail function I think that could work. The player would still be targeted for commands but not NK, right?
Another doubt, how would the sacrifice work with the strongman? Does he lose one life? Griffith becomes scum even when he doesn't kill? Also what happens if the Doctor targets the sacrifice the same night? Or someone else tries to kill the sacrifice? Can the sacrifice be revived? In any of this situations will Griffith change his aligment?
Also, does the Behelit remains in the game if Griffith is killed?

 

[Atheon]

yn

May 17 2017 at 1:04pm

May 17 2017 at 10:03am franconp said:
A jail function I think that could work. The player would still be targeted for commands but not NK, right?
Another doubt, how would the sacrifice work with the strongman? Does he lose one life? Griffith becomes scum even when he doesn't kill? Also what happens if the Doctor targets the sacrifice the same night? Or someone else tries to kill the sacrifice? Can the sacrifice be revived? In any of this situations will Griffith change his aligment?
Also, does the Behelit remains in the game if Griffith is killed?

Yeah, Jail is command-targettable (for watchers/trackers/cops, etc) but cant be NK and can't do his/her own night command (if any).
Sacrifice is just a strong kill, so it will go through doctor's protection, but other than that it's just an additional NK with the STRONG modifier. If it hits strongman that still have two lives, he will live and griff will go to scummie's side. A sacrificed death can be revived. Griff will change alignment if technically there was a death.
Yes, Behelit will remain in the game if Griff is killed (and now, even after Griff transition to scum's side). It seems more consistent that way and in the story/lore, too.

 

[Atheon]

yn

May 22 2017 at 4:50am

coppa, when you have time (during your vacation), me and franco have been tweaking the game design somewhat. let me know if you have questions with anything ?
ty

 

[Atheon]

yn

May 24 2017 at 2:28am

thanks coppa and franco for reviewing and working with me and seru on this :>
after chatting with coppa and franco in discord, am happy to say that berserk mafia has now been vetted and can launch when the community needs it to :D