Scum will probably kill Gorlak now, right? I don't really see him getting voted out at this stage. Other than him and probably Fran, I'd say the rest of Town could still easily get voted out before LyLo tbh.
What is the numbers game right now?
We've got 8 players alive, assume Scum gets the kill tonight, we go to 7 players left on D5, with 5 Town and 2 Scum left.
So, mislunch on D5 and another Townie nightkilled = LyLo on D6 at the earliest.
It was, in fact, just a role that could detect if someone had their role changed by Monkey or detect Monkey herself (you would’ve got a unique message for targeting her). Had you stayed on Kalor you would’ve at least detected an anomaly lol On the flip side I’m pretty sure that result would’ve just gotten him killed. Your role was essentially filler since the neutral was more town aligned than scum aligned (in theory... poor maol).
It was, in fact, just a role that could detect if someone had their role changed by Monkey or detect Monkey herself (you would’ve got a unique message for targeting her). Had you stayed on Kalor you would’ve at least detected an anomaly lol On the flip side I’m pretty sure that result would’ve just gotten him killed. Your role was essentially filler since the neutral was more town aligned than scum aligned (in theory... poor maol).
Kop is in fact the gift giver, but what he gives is randomized from a list that includes empty packages. He gave a delayed lightning rod to Gorlak which is why there’s going to be several confused people today. He has targeted scum 3/4 of the nights with the only night he targeted town being the only truly negative result possible (whoops).
The marks trigger an extra kill once a night phase begins with three people marked. One is chosen at random - it landed on Gorlak who also was forcibly the regular night kill due to the lightning rod.
Malus can erase role PMs permanently twice per game and has erased Kalor and Fandorin.
Fandorin was so slippery, but it felt like NO ONE looked there. So I reread everything, still had a bad feeling but forced that townread bc too many interactions :/ He just let monkey do her thing, that was weird.
I think it was Malus fake read in particular that just put me over the edge on Fandorin. "Another town read? Damn, maybe I'm wrong. Let's look elsewhere"
I think it was Malus fake read in particular that just put me over the edge on Fandorin. "Another town read? Damn, maybe I'm wrong. Let's look elsewhere"
Welcome, Gorlak! You played great, it was fun to watch you take a Town Leader approach and really push things along while you were around, so I hope you had fun too!
I'm honestly wondering how different the game would have been if I would have been able to put down a huge scumread on him at the start of D3 like I had planned. It's not like I expect everyone to trust/believe me, but it would have been some major pressure put on him at the least, which he hasn't really felt at all.
I wasn't your full cop. My only purpose was to find Monkey. Somehow I only had two things wrong about my understanding of my position. (I even got a "Not the oddity" result on malus, soooooooooooooooooo??????)
1) My target wasn't an arsonist.
2.) My role was in fact over and done with when Monkey won.
I was more than a little frustrated because the whole "I'm not a cop" thing was super obvious to me what with the intentional vagueness (which I mentioned repeatedly...). It was like, the one thing I wound up being right on. Lmao. Yet Town kept trying to suggest I was the cop. Or a cop for a singular Scum member. That never made any sense to me and I think I had to clarify why like half a dozen times to the point where later on in the game I was just throwing my hands up and not biting with what I felt like were attempts to muddy the waters.
I wasn't your full cop. My only purpose was to find Monkey. Somehow I only had two things wrong about my understanding of my position. (I even got a "Not the oddity" result on malus, soooooooooooooooooo??????)
1) My target wasn't an arsonist.
2.) My role was in fact over and done with when Monkey won.
I was more than a little frustrated because the whole "I'm not a cop" thing was super obvious to me what with the intentional vagueness (which I mentioned repeatedly...). It was like, the one thing I wound up being right on. Lmao. Yet Town kept trying to suggest I was the cop. Or a cop for a singular Scum member. That never made any sense to me and I think I had to clarify why like half a dozen times to the point where later on in the game I was just throwing my hands up and not biting with what I felt like were attempts to muddy the waters.
I’ve said it before, but I’m still surprised by how many people felt there HAD to be a meaningful purpose for each role when that’s rarely the case for role madness games (or bastard games for that matter).
I’ve said it before, but I’m still surprised by how many people felt there HAD to be a meaningful purpose for each role when that’s rarely the case for role madness games (or bastard games for that matter).
Well, I think I did spec earlier on that my role was designed to prevent a Neutral from winning. I just hadn't, you know, considered that the Neutral was kinda toothless as far as anti-town goes. I sorta read the idea that a role was generated based around countering it meant it had to be particularly powerful, not that I was filler, lmao
I always find it kind of interesting to see how Mafia will react to their own NKs. Fandorin has taken the "explain exactly why we did it" route while masking it as just guesses based on his experience.
N1:
Fandorin said:
Ketkat was low key town read across the board and few actual interactions for clues, so I’m not surprised by the NK.
I don't find particularly off that Gorlak was targeted since we already avoided a NK on N3, so scum knew that we had protective roles, plus he was a very solid townread.
Also remember on D1 when he said he would protect Kits in a Protect/Investigate/Kill and his reasoning was 100% based on thinking like Scum would? I fucking knew it all the way back then lol.
Fandorin's claim is kind of weird in that he claimed as Lea Seydoux instead of as her character's name, Fragile. He also said "X-shot weird hunter variant" instead of giving an actual name for the role. I feel like that deserves an eyebrow raise from someone at least.
Fandorin's claim is kind of weird in that he claimed as Lea Seydoux instead of as her character's name, Fragile. He also said "X-shot weird hunter variant" instead of giving an actual name for the role. I feel like that deserves an eyebrow raise from someone at least.
Lea Seydoux is one of the fake flavors they were given (supposed to go with the Miller claim - had a fun little jab about the whole Stephanie Joosten thing). Had he claimed Fragile he would have regretted it as that’s Fran’s flavor.
Lea Seydoux is one of the fake flavors they were given (supposed to go with the Miller claim - had a fun little jab about the whole Stephanie Joosten thing). Had he claimed Fragile he would have regretted it as that’s Fran’s flavor.
No one will ever see an outcome from the marks so it seems too convenient in my mind. They also could have been outted if different roles were in play still seeing as they aren’t sure what occurred.
Both Fando and Malus appear to be in at least a little bit of trouble today. If they go for Malus today then I could see them finding Fando before it's too late. If they mislunch today though, then I'm not sure if they'll finish it back to back with those two.
I'd like to stress though that massclaim isn't necessarily the best way to solve the game (look at Maple Street mafia, there was a massclaim after 2 scum got killed and Febe ended up winning as solo scum 3 or so day phases later).
Yes, as much as I like to try to erase Maple Street from my memory, it is important to highlight this.
One of the things I did wrong in Maple Street was assume that I could pick out the fake claims from the real ones in a Role Madness game and attempted to solve the game based solely on that. Scum were not given fake claims in Maple Street, they had nothing but their own ingenuity available to them for coming up with fake claims, so I thought I was able to sniff out the bullshit claims from the real ones. This did nothing to stop Fireblend from coming up with his fake claim that fooled me and the rest of Town. Why? Because everything he said about it added up in one way or another, and it seemed to be confirmed via the way some other actions were claimed and lined up with his own fake claim, leaving other claims to be examined first.
HOWEVER, in reality there was plenty about how Fireblend was playing that could have been scrutinized, and I was rightfully scrutinizing him in the earlier days because he was (in my opinion) being scummy. What I did was allow his claim and how seemingly legit it was to override any other feelings I had about him and write him off my Process of Elimination list completely.
Obviously the worst thing I did in Maple Street was force the game to end early by convincing everyone I had the game solved and we just needed to turbo through a list of 3 or 4 names until we hit the one that was Scum. This was one of my most embarrassing moments in a Mafia game, only topped by my meltdown at the end of MafiEra, both of which still make me feel terrible today when I think about them.
The moral of the story is this:
Just because someone makes a claim that you think seems real and/or Townie, that does not and should not negate their other actions in the game. If you still think they are or were being scummy, their claim should not prevent you from looking into this further and continuing to press them, unless they were like someone's Mason partner or something else that would be extremely hard to fake or lie about.
Those are great points, Fanto and Ty. It's often really hard to suss out fake claims from real ones. Looking at the big picture and how people play can help and it should allow them to find malus here, but it hasn't so far, and it takes a lot of work and logic and fighting through second-guessing yourself.
I think fando messed up his fake claim. Looking up avenger on mafia universe, It has this listed under notes:
“ This is a variation of the standard Hunter role.”
The wording he used in his initial reveal is similar.
He also said "X-shot weird hunter variant" instead of giving an actual name for the role. I feel like that deserves an eyebrow raise from someone at least.
Dying at the idea that they’re going to somehow pluck scum out using flavor names. It’s like they forgot I bullshitted them all off of like three trailers.
It's really tough for Scum to try pushing outside of their own in this spot though I feel like. Both Fando and Malus are in Town's sights now, if one of them were to aggressively push in a different direction, it would tie them to their partner once they flip. If Town were looking elsewhere still, I think it would be easier for them to try guiding things away, but Kalor has mainly dropped out of consideration and has been replaced with Malus, while Zeke and Fran's cases against Fando are a lot more compelling than the cases against Zeke and Fran, at least in my opinion.
It's really tough for Scum to try pushing outside of their own in this spot though I feel like. Both Fando and Malus are in Town's sights now, if one of them were to aggressively push in a different direction, it would tie them to their partner once they flip. If Town were looking elsewhere still, I think it would be easier for them to try guiding things away, but Kalor has mainly dropped out of consideration and has been replaced with Malus, while Zeke and Fran's cases against Fando are a lot more compelling than the cases against Zeke and Fran, at least in my opinion.
But look at all the suspicion Fando is getting - I don’t think even more bussing is suddenly going to resolve that. I would’ve just spread out and hoped Town flubbed it. They’re in an unfortunate position for sure though.