They should be able to. The alignment cop gets his roleblocked shot back so that he can use it another day, however.2- Can scum roleblock the aligment cop? The results are made public in the game?
Both. Kinda.3- Are they mason or lovers? Because I understood that they were masons that they were going to sacrifice instead of the other in case of a lynch but in the worst scenario sheet you say that both of them dies.
No. All deaths that happen during the night after they vote to visit the Dark Room count towards his win con. That includes marked players, scum NK and possibly the vig shot as well. So if both the scum NK and a vig shot go through, the Influencer could reach his win con with only 3 marked players.4- When you say that the influencer needs 5 NK to occur in the night previous to the group reaching the Dark Room did you meant that he needed to mark 5 players?
You're right. The Blue Room would put town in an extremely harsh position during MyLo/LyLo, as scum will always try to go for a hammer in that situation. I could possibly come up with a nerfed version of that room, or even take it out of the rotation if it comes to MyLo/LyLo and it's still an option. I'll think it over.5- Blue room may not work well in Mylo/Lylo. The teal room could have the same problem.
It only counts the votes put in while they are inside the Purple Room. If no one moves their votearound, no one gets punished, and only the most voted player ends up lynched.6- The purple room just count the votes that moved that day or during all the game? And if noone move the vote more than once?
Worst case scenario for town seems to be D5 and that's ok. They have plenty of chances to catch scum. If they suck at it it's their fault.
Worst case scenario for scum is D2 (vigilante kills scum D1, scum lynch D1, vigi NK scum N1, double lynch scum D2) and that could be trouble. And they don't even need to play too badly to reach this scenario. If the vigi is really lucky, a lynch during the first couple of phases can be decided over the littlest mistake.
It dawned on me a couple of weeks ago that I'd submitted the design document after being way too worried about town and the neutral player while completely neglecting the scum side of things. But by then it was already too late, haha.1- Scum seems underpowered. Town has an unlimited doctor and can get an unlimited roleblock and scum only has 2 strong shots to deal with that.
That was definitely an oversight. He needs one. I'll add it to the sheet.I also think that the influencer could have a bulletproof.
No. The idea is that they'll only be able to access each room once.Can they choose the same room more than once?
Guys, first of all: thank you for indulging me :)
They should be able to. The alignment cop gets his roleblocked shot back so that he can use it another day, however.
The results are not made public. They arrive privately to the alignment cop like usually.
Both. Kinda.
They're "Lynch Lovers" (which is terrible nomenclature, I know, haha). If one of them is lynched, the other dies too, and not instead of the other. If one of them is night killed instead of lynched, however, the remaining one becomes a roleblocker.
No. All deaths that happen during the night after they vote to visit the Dark Room count towards his win con. That includes marked players, scum NK and possibly the vig shot as well. So if both the scum NK and a vig shot go through, the Influencer could reach his win con with only 3 marked players.
I put that in there to give the influencer some leeway. He can try to play it safe and push for the Dark Room choice when he has 5 marked players, or he can take a chance on the scum NK and go for it with only 4 marked players, if he feels pressured for some reason.
You're right. The Blue Room would put town in an extremely harsh position during MyLo/LyLo, as scum will always try to go for a hammer in that situation. I could possibly come up with a nerfed version of that room, or even take it out of the rotation if it comes to MyLo/LyLo and it's still an option. I'll think it over.
Regarding the Teal Room, though, there's a bit of information I forgot to put in the sheet: the number of BPs it distributes diminishes as the game goes on. It only gives out 4 random BPs with over 20 players alive. When the number of players alive reaches 19, the number of BPs goes down to 3; 13 or less players, 2 BPs; and finally 7 or less players, 1 BP.
It only counts the votes put in while they are inside the Purple Room. If no one moves their votearound, no one gets punished, and only the most voted player ends up lynched.
The concept behind that room is to force players to think things through completely before putting down a vote, as changing their vote would probably mean they'd die as well.
I'm now considering the possibility of 3 players moving their vote, say, 3 times, and ending up tied. I don't know if I'd want to kill them all. If only 2 players tied, I wouldn't hesitate, but with 3, I don't know.
Maybe it'd be simpler to just say "The player who moves their vote around more than once dies".
It dawned on me a couple of weeks ago that I'd submitted the design document after being way too worried about town and the neutral player while completely neglecting the scum side of things. But by then it was already too late, haha.
I'm going to test some ideas for changes in their powers. Besides the 2 strong shots and the 2 roleblock shots, what do you think would be a good way to counter the unlimited doctor and roleblocker on town side? Turning scum's roleblocker into an unlimited one, maybe.
No. The idea is that they'll only be able to access each room once.
With that said, I'm considering having them start on the Dark Room instead of in the White Room. The reason behind that is my worry that the Influencer will have a hard time convincing the rest of the players to go into an unknown room.
If they start from there, since no one will be marked at the beginning of D1, they'll be under the impression that "nothing happens in the Dark Room", and that could be a possible avenue for the Influencer to argue in favor of visiting it.
I'm still mulling over this, though. Maybe the inconsistency in having that one be the only room they could return to could backfire on the Influencer instead.
I'm glad, haha. Knowing how these things go, though, they'll probably get lynched on D1 :PThis role is really interesting. I like it. I'm just no sure how 5 kills in the same night will work out near end game.
That's a good idea.The Blue Room shouldn't have a majority rule even when they are not in Mylo/Lylo. Maybe you could merge the Yellow Room with the Blue one and change the Yellow to another condition.
This could work. If everyone only votes once, no one but the chosen lynch dies. If there's a tie between people who moved their votes more than the others, it's a thunderdome.Maybe if it's a tie noone dies or some kind of thunderdome situation.
I'm very comfortable giving the tracker at least one more shot. A 3-shot strongman should be fine though (maybe I should change the Influencer's one-shot protection from regular BP unavoidable BP).I think the strongman and the roleblocker should get a couple of more shots each. Or an unlimited roleblocker and make strongman 3-shot. The tracker could use an extra shot too.
I don't think we should force them to go to the Dark Room because convincing them to do that is part of the Influencer's role. In any case, they'll run out of other room options by D10... hahaha.I think it's ok if they start in the white room. The dark room it's dangerous for both town and scum so making them doubt to go there is ok. You could force them to go to the dark room after some point (like they must go to that room at D7 or something like that) but I don't know how so many kills could affect the game at that point.
I'm glad, haha. Knowing how these things go, though, they'll probably get lynched on D1 :P
In terms of game impact, he's not that different from an arson - the main difference being that he doesn't need to kill everyone else to win. I don't think it'll be a problem.
This could work. If everyone only votes once, no one but the chosen lynch dies. If there's a tie between people who moved their votes more than the others, it's a thunderdome.
I'm very comfortable giving the tracker at least one more shot. A 3-shot strongman should be fine though (maybe I should change the Influencer's one-shot protection from regular BP unavoidable BP).
I don't know about an unlimited roleblocker, though. Town has to work for theirs, and I feel like a scum roleblocker is way more powerful because there's no risk of them using it on a teammate. 3-shot could work.
Right now, instead of:
2-shot roleblocker
2-shot strongman
2-shot silencer
2-shot tracker
Goon
We have:
3-shot roleblocker
3-shot strongman
2-shot silencer
3-shot tracker
BP
I don't think we should force them to go to the Dark Room because convincing them to do that is part of the Influencer's role. In any case, they'll run out of other room options by D10... hahaha.
1. I think scum is still a bit underpowered, there's 20 townies and 5 scum members. I think the solution is to remove a vanilla townie instead of adding a scum member.
Lmao haha.This come from the one who run a game with 15 neutrals and a whole bunch of scum.
Just kidding. Loved that game.
My big worry that counterweighs this one is that making it so that he needs less kills to win would make it too easy for him.I was thinking of him like an arsonist too but 5 may seem to much. They usually need to kill less people. I'm worried that 5 kills near endgame could be overkill for any aligment.
I can do it like Geno handled the post-death item redistributions in HvV - opening the thread up for an hour or so a little while after the day is over.The question is when to make the thunderdome. It would be the next day phase?
These are the hints I was planning on giving:What hints were you thinking of providing about the rooms?
I'm ok with removing a vanilla townie. It wouldn't change the worst case scenario for town (D5 in the dark room).Alright a couple of things.
1. I think scum is still a bit underpowered, there's 20 townies and 5 scum members. I think the solution is to remove a vanilla townie instead of adding a scum member.
How willing would you be to swap the dark room with another room? I think the dark room being the one that kills them makes too much sense.My big worry that counterweighs this one is that making it so that he needs less kills to win would make it too easy for him.
Do you think reducing that number to 4 would improve things in that regard?
I can do it like Geno handled the post-death item redistributions in HvV - opening the thread up for an hour or so a little while after the day is over.
These are the hints I was planning on giving:
Dark Room - "Fates could change." <- Is this too ominous?
Orange Room (invisible votes) - "Noise will muddle the voices of the choosing ones."
Red Room (two groups lynch one player each) - "Backs will be turned against the glass wall."
Pink Room (two groups, each lynches a player in the opposing room) - "Accusatory looks will be thrown across the glass wall."
Green Room (no lynch) - "The voices will be pacified"
Purple Room (move your vote more than once = death) - "Unincisiveness will be punished."
Blue Room (no majority rule, no vote = death) - "Silence will be punished."
Grey Room (3 vote changes = death) - "Uncertainty will be punished."
Teal Room (BPs in the following night) - "The shield will rise."
And I thought of something else for the yellow room - what do you guys think of making town elect someone to become immune in the next night phase? It'd be a separate vote from the lynch one.
Yellow Room (elected BP for the following night) - "The voices will also protect."
I'm ok with removing a vanilla townie. It wouldn't change the worst case scenario for town (D5 in the dark room).
You mean the colors? I’d be totally fine with it.How willing would you be to swap the dark room with another room? I think the dark room being the one that kills them makes too much sense.
Yeah I meant the colors.You mean the colors? I’d be totally fine with it.
I've switched it around with the Blue Room, which is one that I think people will be gunning for, going by its description. At least that way the Dark Room moniker will help give them some pause.Yeah I meant the colors.
Alright cool, much better now imo.I've switched it around with the Blue Room, which is one that I think people will be gunning for, going by its description. At least that way the Dark Room moniker will help give them some pause.
Blue Room - "Fates could change."
Orange Room (invisible votes) - "Noise will muddle the voices of the choosing ones."
Red Room (two groups lynch one player each) - "Backs will be turned against the glass wall."
Pink Room (two groups, each lynches a player in the opposing room) - "Accusatory looks will be thrown across the glass wall."
Green Room (no lynch) - "The voices will be pacified"
Purple Room (move your vote more than once = death) - "Unincisiveness will be punished."
Dark Room (no majority rule, no vote = death) - "Silence will be punished."
Grey Room (3 vote changes = death) - "Uncertainty will be punished."
Teal Room (BPs in the following night) - "The shield will rise."
Yellow Room (elected BP for the following night) - "The voices will also protect."
Do you guys think the Teal Room's description is too on the nose? I'm struggling to find a more subtle description.
Yeah, that's a fair point. Even if they decide it's a good thing right off the bat, I'm not sure they'll go for it right away. I think having a range of good-sounding to bad-sounding rooms is a good thing in the end.Alright cool, much better now imo.
I was thinking that with the Teal room, but then it creates a kind of strategy I would say, if they know visiting it will give them good stuff, do they go for it early or do they go for it later on?
I can do it like Geno handled the post-death item redistributions in HvV - opening the thread up for an hour or so a little while after the day is over.
I've switched it around with the Blue Room, which is one that I think people will be gunning for, going by its description. At least that way the Dark Room moniker will help give them some pause.
Blue Room - "Fates could change."
Orange Room (invisible votes) - "Noise will muddle the voices of the choosing ones."
Red Room (two groups lynch one player each) - "Backs will be turned against the glass wall."
Pink Room (two groups, each lynches a player in the opposing room) - "Accusatory looks will be thrown across the glass wall."
Green Room (no lynch) - "The voices will be pacified"
Purple Room (move your vote more than once = death) - "Unincisiveness will be punished."
Dark Room (no majority rule, no vote = death) - "Silence will be punished."
Grey Room (3 vote changes = death) - "Uncertainty will be punished."
Teal Room (BPs in the following night) - "The shield will rise."
Yellow Room (elected BP for the following night) - "The voices will also protect."
Do you guys think the Teal Room's description is too on the nose? I'm struggling to find a more subtle description.
Yeah, that's a fair point. Even if they decide it's a good thing right off the bat, I'm not sure they'll go for it right away. I think having a range of good-sounding to bad-sounding rooms is a good thing in the end.
I've run through the new worst case scenarios, and I think scum has a little more leeway now with one less townie and their improved PRs. On the other hand, town's worst case scenario is still D5 with 4 Influencer-induced deaths on the Dark Room.
I tried reducing the number of simultaneous kills the Influencer would need for their win-con, but that made the worst case scenario for town be on D4 start... Which I think is a bit too much.
This is the current setup:
9x Vanilla Townies
2x Town Sleepwalkers
1x Town Doctor (unlimited shots)
1x Town Alignment Cop (2 shots)
1x Town Self-Watcher (unlimited shots), Bulletproof (1-shot)
2x Town Mason/Lynch Lovers, one of which can become a Town Roleblocker (unlimited shots)
1x Town Vigilante (2 shots)
1x Town Pupit (2 shots)
1x Influencer
1x Mafia Roleblocker (3 shots)
1x Mafia Strong killer (3 shots)
1x Mafia Silencer (2 shots)
1x Mafia Tracker (3 shots)
1x Mafia Bulletproof (1 shot)
On theory, I'm satisfied, and ready to have my expectations destroyed by the actual players :P
@Franconp @Geno How do you feel about things right now? They'll probably check in to see our progress within the next week.
The logistics are awful, haha :(The problem with that is not all the players are always around at day end. In HvV most of the time there were 3 or 4 of us during the item distributions. With a lynch on the line the stakes are higher.
I considered that, but I think there's a big chance it could backfire. By arbitrarily opening it up, say, on D3, I think it'd create an atmosphere of "Well, alright, that's where we need to go next."And if you keep the blue room closed until D3 or D4? So they can't choose it and give some time to the influencer to target some people. That way he will only have to keep people out of the room for one or two phases. At the start of one of those days you can tell them that the blue room is now open.
I thought I'd mentioned it earlier, but apparently I forgot to - I plan on sealing the Red Room when the Pink Room is selected, and vice versa. I feel like two double lynches in a single game would be overkill. They could end up wrecking both town and scum too quickly.Worse town scenario is D5 even without the influencer:
worse town
d1 town lynch 18-1-5
n1 town kill, vigilante kill 16-1-5
d2- red room 2 town lynch, vigilante kill 13-1-5
n2 lovers kill 11-1-5
D3 – pink room 2 town lynch 9-1-5
n3 town kill 8-1-5
D4 – purple room 2 town lynch 6-1-5
n4 town kill 5-1-5
D5 - town/neutral lynch is scum win.
That's not counting the dark room which can kill several players if they don't vote. Even then it's not bad.
I think everything's good now, pretty much ready to go.
:DThe hints are ok to me.
The logistics are awful, haha :(
Here's what I'll do: I'll just roleblock instead of killing the player who switches votes around. That way, I can punish as many players as I need to without fucking the game up, haha. And it's not like I want to punish them with this room - it's supposed to be a deterrent.
I considered that, but I think there's a big chance it could backfire. By arbitrarily opening it up, say, on D3, I think it'd create an atmosphere of "Well, alright, that's where we need to go next."
I think the best way of doing it is keeping it clean, hiding the room in plain sight among the others. That way, the Influencer may end up having a little more trouble, but he'll also have a lot more room to maneuver with his strategies.
I also think the flavor text will be enough of a deterrent to stop town for going for that room early on. I doubt they'll want their "fates changed" on D2 :P
I thought I'd mentioned it earlier, but apparently I forgot to - I plan on sealing the Red Room when the Pink Room is selected, and vice versa. I feel like two double lynches in a single game would be overkill. They could end up wrecking both town and scum too quickly.
You can also give the players only 3 (or any number that you want) rooms to choose every day. For example:
D1 they vote between orange, teal or red
D2 they vote between blue, pink or red
D3 they vote between pink, dark or purple
That way you could set the influencer room for an set day forward and also could make it simpler for the players to choose what room they will go for the next day. Easier to choose between 3 options than from 10. I'm fine with the current setup but I just thought about this.
You didn't miss it: it's just another thing I forgot to make note of. If there's a tie, the choice is randomized, as it would with a lynch in a setup that rejects "no lynch" as an option.Also, I don't seem to find this anywhere: What would happen if there is a tie when they have to select rooms?